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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi. Looking for some guidance. I need to replace my HVAC system (split system--natural gas). Don't know a thing about HVAC so I need some help ensuring that I pick the right system. I want to get a system that will be eligible for the tax credit: (1) furnace AFUE required to be > or = 95%; and (2) A/C required EER > or = 13; SEER > = 16. Wondering if anyone could recommend brands and/or models that would be "top rated" (product quality, warranty, etc...). Also, can't seem to find any sites that actually rate different them--are they out there? Hope I've provided enough info. (though I'm sure I probably haven't!). :)
 

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Any system is only as good as the installer. If it is sized correct and installed correct it will work well regardless of the name.
 

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Why not try the best selling brand

Goodman is the best selling residental hvac system on the market today. They are built out of U.S.A. parts asyembled in Houston, Texas. Goodman also offers the strongest warrenty in the industry. Not just equal to thr others but stronger. Example--if the compressure goes bad they replace the whole unit, not just the compressure like the other guys. You wont hear much about goodman becuse they spend there money on the product not adversiting. If you ask a installer that is not a Goodman Dealer you will hear bad stuff almost every time--I call that sour grapes. If you go to the Goodman web site you will find a list of Goodman dealers in your area. OH I ALMOST FORGOT GOODMAN COST LESS TOO. REMEMBER THEY DONT SPEND MONEY ON ADS. I work for a company near Austin, Texas that is a dealer for eight major brands including Goodman. Be sure to get a r-410a system. Hope this helps, GOOD LUCK.
 

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Products

ICP//Heil is excellent equipment well built and uncomplicated.
 

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Most manufacturers, have a line that will meet the tax credit requirements.

Get estimates for several brands. Post the options you get with them. And ask question about them then.

Depending where you live. You may want to consider a dual fuel system. The tax credit requirements for a heat pump are a little lower for a heat pump.
 

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Most of the major brands if installed PROPERLY will work well. There are differences in quality within most brands. If sound is an issue to you, as you spend more $$ they tend to get quieter, heavier build/more features/more efficient and if you have to listen to/live with it for 20 yrs that can be a big issue. For ex:http://www.lennox.com/products/list.asp?type=1. Made in Dallas, the XC15 is one of the quietest made. Extended warranties are cheap to buy and I recommend the 10 yr type.
 

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Goodman is the best selling residental hvac system on the market today. They are built out of U.S.A. parts asyembled in Houston, Texas. Goodman also offers the strongest warrenty in the industry. Not just equal to thr others but stronger. Example--if the compressure goes bad they replace the whole unit, not just the compressure like the other guys. You wont hear much about goodman becuse they spend there money on the product not adversiting. If you ask a installer that is not a Goodman Dealer you will hear bad stuff almost every time--I call that sour grapes. If you go to the Goodman web site you will find a list of Goodman dealers in your area. OH I ALMOST FORGOT GOODMAN COST LESS TOO. REMEMBER THEY DONT SPEND MONEY ON ADS. I work for a company near Austin, Texas that is a dealer for eight major brands including Goodman. Be sure to get a r-410a system. Hope this helps, GOOD LUCK.
Texas, it is very obvious that you personally profit from Goodman products, and from your HVAC poetic adorations, have drank the Goodman Kool-Aid. I once extolled the virtues of Goodman myself, as the VP of Sales for a multi-state Goodman Distributor. The problem was that I knew better, having represented other equipment in the past. I was acting in the best interest of my personal bank account and not that of my customers.

None of this is to say that Goodman is "Bad" product, but your heavenly description of the grand warranties, reminds me of meeting that I had, sitting with the suits in Houston and hearing them laugh about the actualrial science that went into the decision to announce this warranty with very little improvement to justify. Their reasons for launcing such glorious warranties that are hard to resist were not for the protection of it's end user customers, but was a marketing ploy to overtake #1 Carrier as AC sales kings, with provisions and psychology that said they would not have to honor many warranties. Goodman is OK equipment, but does not stand the test of time regarding structure and integrity of many competitive products with lesser warranties.

Now, a statement for the OP:
The tax credits are great in comparison to past programs, but weigh this carefully. To gain the max $1500, you do have to step into a level of equipment that is higher. If your home is older and lacks the insulations that new homes have, the efficiency savings from say a 14 SEER AC / 93% furnace - to the Tax Credit 16 SEER/95+, may not be as substantial as you would think, and the money spent to attain the Tax Credit, may take years to justify. But, if you are of the mind that you want the best, $ be damned, go for it. I had a customer last week who ened up spending $2,100 to get the $1,500. I did my best to show the comparison, but they wanted what they wanted. I think homeowners should not look at the tax credits as a way of saving total money, but more a means to an end to upgrade to a higher level then the normal budget will allow.

Very good luck to you with your decision. And as others have said, do not forsake a good instalation to drink the Kool-Aid of a contractor offering lower quality equipment and installataion for the sake of the tax credit. Use the tax credit wisely and take advantage of having the ability to step up the quality.
 

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Home.

You make a very good point.

The tax credit is a great thing for people to be able to move up in equipment end, wihtout absorbing the normal upgrade price.
but, lots of contractors try to make it sound like the customer is getting more for less then a standard unit install.

Anybody in the trade that thinks any HVAC manfacturer. Has a product that will last a lifetime. Should wake up and smell the coffee.

Goodman had/has that lifetime and or 99 year warranty out to make money now and down the road also.

They want a good contractor to talk the customer into taking the credit, and paying for the upgrade to the next latest and greatest unit from them.

Bean counters and demographics determine how many people will really take the warranty repair, compared to how many will pay for an upgrade, and how many will have moved, or forgetten they have the warranty. And then advise from those numbers.
 

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I just bought a high end treadmill (Precor great USA brand). One of their competitors with a reasonable machine with better warranty uses the extra warranty tactic rather than building the same quality as mine. Point being that the Precor is so damn well built very few people will need the warranty. It rides a lot better and I don't buy equipment based on warranty. Some of these large companies use statitstics and buy a insurance policy to cover the extra warranty rather than incur the extra cost of building a better machine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks to all for their feedback. I'm going to see what quotes I get and will post. One ques., though I want the tax credit, are the high efficiency units going to be more expensive to servcice and will they last as long? Would like a quiet unit and don't plan on selling home for 20 years (knock on wood!!). Thanks again to you all. This chatroom is great!!
 

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The first step is to have the units properly sized. Next a good installed and site survey. After they check the duct system they can advise what is needed. Ask prices for multiple brands. Don't make the mistake and choose a product strictly on price.
For more info on heat loss and heat gain & FAQ see link
http://www.comfort-calc.net/faq.html
 

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The higher efficiency units are not necessarily more complicated. They are made larger to get rid of the heat easier and that is how the efficiency goes up. If you get a 2 stage A/C or heat pump they are a LOT more complicated. If it is properly maintained it will last a lot longer.
 

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To Home air direct, As I said I work for a dealer of EIGHT MAJOR BRANDS. Goodman in my mind is the best value. By the way its --Amanna\Goodman. It is also obvious that you DONT PROFIT form Goodman products. You may not like them or have had bad experince with them that ok. All of our competion always says almost the same thing you said here. Any in the busness is going to recomend the brand they value the most. IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY--NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY. You are still selling hvac you just arn't selling GOODMAN. So saying something aginst Goodman is in your insterst. By the way I get the same pay no matter what unit someone buys.
 

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Go with Goodman hands up, down or sideways. Just stay away from the many hacks out there who masquerade as professionals.
 

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By the way its --Amanna\Goodman. It is also obvious that you DONT PROFIT form Goodman products. You may not like them or have had bad experince with them that ok. All of our competion always says almost the same thing you said here. Any in the busness is going to recomend the brand they value the most. IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY--NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY. You are still selling hvac you just arn't selling GOODMAN. So saying something aginst Goodman is in your insterst. By the way I get the same pay no matter what unit someone buys.
You are right Tex, I don't know much:no:

But I do know three things. First, you are WRONG, I do sell Goodman, and two other brands, and I have been involved in wholesale distribution of Goodman, Armstrong, Ducane, Lennox, and Whirlpool. Second, It is not Amana/Goodman. Dude it is Goodman. I can tell you every minute corporate detail of the company, including the cell phone numbers of the brass. I can tell you when they became part of Apollo holding and when they went public. i can tell you the entire pedigree of the Amana BRAND. And, I can tell you that you need a spell checker on your computer.

Edited to include: My apology to the OP for the above post. It is out of character for me. My feathers get ruffled when people stop helping and promote without any thought for the OP. You are trying to make a big decision. Your decision should be made with multiple inputs. Budget, contractor, warranty and many other factors. What ever you decide, I wish you the best of luck with your project.
 

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Wow

Look here. I did'nt mean to hurt your feelings home air, only responding to your condensinding tone of your post. You sell Goodman? Then way do you want to put them down so badly. Is your web site "Home Air Direct"? Now I did not say that there wer'nt any other good brands out there, just my prefence. So dont get mad becuse I don't agree with you. Keep using your spell checker, give your opionions, but leave you condensinding tone at home.:thumbup:
 

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Look here. I did'nt mean to hurt your feelings home air, only responding to your condensinding tone of your post. You sell Goodman? Then way do you want to put them down so badly. Is your web site "Home Air Direct"? Now I did not say that there wer'nt any other good brands out there, just my prefence. So dont get mad becuse I don't agree with you. Keep using your spell checker, give your opionions, but leave you condensinding tone at home.:thumbup:
:boxing: Ok Tex, I apologize for the tone. And yes, that is my website, but if you look at all of my past posts here so far, I do everything I can NOT to self promote. And yes, you do not see Goodman on my site. My Goodman dealings is another arena of my business. You are correct, that you did not say there were not other good brands, nor did I say Goodman was bad. What I have a problem with is not the equipment itself, (unless you count the 300 furnaces I had to arm wrestle to replace with bad heat exchangers. If you have been around you know about these). What I have a problem with is the marketing philosophy. That has nothing to do with you and what you do.

Again, sorry for the tone. You are not the first to call me out on that:whistling2:
 

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Thankyou

Alright thankyou for the resopnce. I have gone looking for more of your post. The ones I have found I think are right on target. Hope all is well where you are.:thumbup:
 

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Home Air - Very helpful post. I'm in the process of selecting a firm and HVAC system to satisfy my needs. I think I want high-efficiency - 95% AFUE and 15SEER, because it seems like the right thing to do... Frankly, if I'm buying a quality product that will last 15-20 years, I feel like I buy the most efficient I can afford.
 

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If you are going after a tax credit, make sure the contractor is able to prove that the combination will qualify (ARI).

I represent Whirlpool, and was quoting a system yesterday, and no matter how hard I tried, based on the system size, I could not reach the required SEER/EER combo on the cooling side :mad:

I was in a meeting last week and I overheard a contractor say "yeah, I know that system doesn't qualify, but I "doubt" the IRS will ever need to see proof:eek: Just beware that hungry people will say anything to get a job.

Now, since you are looking at 2 ton, you should be fine. Most of the 2 - 2.5 ton 16 SEER and up AC can get to the required SEER/EER one way or another.

Best of luck
 
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