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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Not understanding the reasoning behind boring a hole through a normally non leaking wall to put a pipe.

And water "drips" out, not "pours" out. I don't think you will notice it and it should evaporate rather quickly.
Hello chandler
The boring of a hole is to take advantage of routing the dripping of water into that gutter downspout since I DO NOT have access to the existing drain line exit from that wall. By attaching that new blue line to that gutter, I can direct the water away from the house. Naturally, I will seal that hole around the pipe with something.

Here in Miami, the AC runs quite a bit, as you can imagine, so I'm not sure that it will drip out. But I get your point.
 

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Sounds like plan, if a little less usual. You'll want to enter the downspout on an angle, and not penetrate too far, as the storm flow can be quite high during downpours.

The trap can be higher then your drawing depicts if it's easier to service. You'll need the exit of the trap to be about 2-3" above the bottom of the trap. You'll also need to add a vent to the downstream side of the trap. The upstream side should be capped as a cleanout. I glue the tap, but will leave some of the fittings unglued for ease of service later. (pipe entering fitting, according to flow, in an orientation that avoids leaks.) If in doubt, glue it.

Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Sounds like plan, if a little less usual. You'll want to enter the downspout on an angle, and not penetrate too far, as the storm flow can be quite high during downpours.

The trap can be higher then your drawing depicts if it's easier to service. You'll need the exit of the trap to be about 2-3" above the bottom of the trap. You'll also need to add a vent to the downstream side of the trap. The upstream side should be capped as a cleanout. I glue the tap, but will leave some of the fittings unglued for ease of service later. (pipe entering fitting, according to flow, in an orientation that avoids leaks.) If in doubt, glue it.

Cheers!
thank you SuperS.
1) If you look at the opening post, it will show a picture of the existing trap. It goes along with the concrete step so as to not interfere and to disguise it a bit; the original AC installer did that, not me.

2) "Add a vent to the downstream side of the trap". Why is that necessary? I ask to learn. And by "vent" do you mean a T coupling that has a removal cap?

3) The upstream side, or vertical tube that I drew and you see in the pictures, has a removable capped tube at the top that allows me to pour water or bleach.

At the moment, the only unglued parts are the elbow that comes out of the ac unit, and the foam-covered downward angled tube. If I decide to do this, I will leave things unglued so that they can be easily serviced. Because the total length of the train will be close to the 25 feet or so, I need to worry about angling it all downwards as best as possible, obviously. If I want to keep the trap and attached tubes at the height of that step, it will be difficult.
 

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thank you SuperS.
1) If you look at the opening post, it will show a picture of the existing trap. It goes along with the concrete step so as to not interfere and to disguise it a bit; the original AC installer did that, not me.

2) "Add a vent to the downstream side of the trap". Why is that necessary? I ask to learn. And by "vent" do you mean a T coupling that has a removal cap?

3) The upstream side, or vertical tube that I drew and you see in the pictures, has a removable capped tube at the top that allows me to pour water or bleach.

At the moment, the only unglued parts are the elbow that comes out of the ac unit, and the foam-covered downward angled tube. If I decide to do this, I will leave things unglued so that they can be easily serviced. Because the total length of the train will be close to the 25 feet or so, I need to worry about angling it all downwards as best as possible, obviously. If I want to keep the trap and attached tubes at the height of that step, it will be difficult.
3) perfect

2) to allow it to drain properly. Without it, you may get an air lock that stops it from draining well, or it'll suck all the water out of the trap, and same deal. If it's directly connected to the plumbing then you have to follow the plumbing vent codes for your area. Since that's not the case, then a simple open air vent will do just fine.

1) that's optional, although I would move it up where the elbow corners the top of the wooden platform. It's ease of service, and allows for a few joints to be left unglued without any risk of leaks. (the inline trap would have to be all glued, which makes it much harder to clean out. It also makes maintaining a good slope harder.) It comes down to personal preference, but as I work in HVACR service for a living, I see it from service point of view more then a cosmetic view.

Cheers!
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
2) to allow it to drain properly. Without it, you may get an air lock that stops it from draining well, or it'll suck all the water out of the trap, and same deal... Since that's not the case, then a simple open air vent will do just fine.

1) that's optional, although I would move it up where the elbow corners the top of the wooden platform. It's ease of service, and allows for a few joints to be left unglued without any risk of leaks.
Thanks again supers
How would I create that vent? Using a T coupling, and plugging it with removable piece with a cap? Like the downspout cap?

You would move my trap to the top of the box? Where the foam-covered piece is??

I appreciate your perspective. Being in a garage, esthetics aren't the most important thing, but serviceability is. And your opinion is very helpful.
 

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Thanks again supers
How would I create that vent? Using a T coupling, and plugging it with removable piece with a cap? Like the downspout cap?

You would move my trap to the top of the box? Where the foam-covered piece is??

I appreciate your perspective. Being in a garage, esthetics aren't the most important thing, but serviceability is. And your opinion is very helpful.
Sorry, I meant the tee where you have the cleanout. So the trap would still on the side of the box, immediately under the current cleanout. (downspout capped part as you called it.)

A vent is exactly the same as your cleanout except it's not capped.

Cheers!
 

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No, you do NOT need a vent or trap. I say that because everyone above assumed you do without asking any questions.

If you are draining into white water (ie, a sump which has only ground water in it no laundry), then you do not requre a J/trap nor a vent either !!

If you are draining into a sewer/waste line: then you MUST have a trap but a vent for pluming: but this isn't plubing !!!(this really depends on a few things, like whether you have an ac water pump or a gravity feed: which you haven't told us). a vent may prevent gurgling, it may not: depends - like on the diameter of your pipe if the pipe is ever "full".

if the line is fed to white water (a sump in the basement or fallse out the side of the house), then it should be pristine clean you should never have a smell: if there is a yucky water problem then find out why

if you have a "yuk" problem and are fed into a sewer line: then it was illegally installed (ventillated air is not legal to contact sewer yuk in any installation period)

assuming you have no "yuk" problem, why not just leave it be? don't fool with it. it should be pretty clean always, no smell. i have a system that pumps water out of the basement - sits in a little resevoir a while before getting pumped. i've never had to clean it, there's never been a smell for 20+ yr of operation . does that give you a clue?
 

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No, you do NOT need a vent or trap. I say that because everyone above assumed you do without asking any questions.

If you are draining into white water (ie, a sump which has only ground water in it no laundry), then you do not requre a J/trap nor a vent either !!

If you are draining into a sewer/waste line: then you MUST have a trap but a vent for pluming: but this isn't plubing !!!(this really depends on a few things, like whether you have an ac water pump or a gravity feed: which you haven't told us). a vent may prevent gurgling, it may not: depends - like on the diameter of your pipe if the pipe is ever "full".

if the line is fed to white water (a sump in the basement or fallse out the side of the house), then it should be pristine clean you should never have a smell: if there is a yucky water problem then find out why

if you have a "yuk" problem and are fed into a sewer line: then it was illegally installed (ventillated air is not legal to contact sewer yuk in any installation period)

assuming you have no "yuk" problem, why not just leave it be? don't fool with it. it should be pretty clean always, no smell. i have a system that pumps water out of the basement - sits in a little resevoir a while before getting pumped. i've never had to clean it, there's never been a smell for 20+ yr of operation . does that give you a clue?
No. Some jurisdictions DO require a trap on positive pressure evaps. Manufactures recommend it. It's better with it, at the cost is ever so slightly more service. Condensate traps often do smell due to bacterial growth, not related to black water. This is a bigger issue in humid areas like the US south. Condensate drains are allowed to directly pipe into the sewage system, depending on jurisdiction and if codes are followed. Stop being a troll.

Cheers!
 

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If you are rebuilding the trap then I suggest building something like this...



Simplifies picture...



The vent will help the condensate flow down the long run that you have. Often times it is not required but long runs can back up and have issues draining sometimes without the vent.

Notice that the clean out has a removable cap on it that is normally closed off so it does not allow for airflow through that pipe.

The P Trap is formed directly at the bottom of the drop. It does not run over to the trap. This is a better design, and with the vent it will not siphon itself out.

Not drawn in this picture but I typically use unions on both sides of the trap so I can remove the trap for cleaning and reinstall it easily. Keep the unions close to the trap so the whole assembly removed will fit in a sink to get cleaned with hot water.
The clear vinyl tube works well but doesn’t look as nice and also pinches off if the bend is too tight. Works well when out of sight because the trap can be made large and nobody has to look at it but since this trap of yours will be seen I suggest spending the extra bucks to form the trap in PVC with unions.

The vent is lifted to a height that is above the evaporator drain pan. This is done to allow water to back up into the pan to trip the safety switch if there is a down stream blockage.

I don’t know the height of the bricks you are planing to penetrate but if there is a chance of water or snow piling up against the penetration then I advise against it. But if you have sufficient height, and you are able to repair the membrane after you puncture it then I’ll leave that you your judgment as to weather that will work. I don’t have enough information to help you there and it’s stepping out of my area of expertise.

I do not recommend punching through the back of the downspout. You need to cut a “Y” fitting into the spout so you can dump the drain into the “Y” as if you had a joining downspout. It would be very hard to securely seal the drain into the downspout without having issues down the road.

I suspect you will have growth from the drain off if you are dumping the condensate down the driveway every day. It will never have a chance to dry. I could be wrong here but I would personally try to find a way to move the condensate to a proper drain with an air gap separating the discharge from the sanitary.

You can get creative with the end if you want to help attach a vacuum when it needs to get cleaned out. Installing ball valves makes for an easy servicing but makes it less pretty.

You also have the option of draining into a condensate pump and moving that condensate to a drain or sink somewhere if one is close by.

The trap depth makes a difference. Try to make it at least 2-3 inches of you can. I don’t know what your systems static pressure is but it needs to be deep enough so that the pressures don’t blow out the water or cause it to gurgle if it’s under negative pressure.

Let me know if you have any questions about these suggestions. I’m happy to clarify anything I wasn’t clear about the first go around.

Edit: adding this to save Super05 from having to type the response again....

That's a really long, awkward looking vent. I try to avoid piping that has a chance to get snagged and potentially break off. The trap doesn't need to be at the bottom of a drop. The few extra inches isn't going to save him from a clog.

Cheers!
I agree it is long, if fastened and routed right it would be out of the way and very secure. Not a snag point in my view but it depends on how it’s put together, it’s just a rough sketch after all.

The few extra feet could save from a clog, additional head can sometimes help before the issue is ever even noticed. They have only had one blockage in the last 9 years so it’s been working well like that so far....

The trap could be placed anywhere. I placed it in that spot in the photo to show there is no need for a leg before going into the trap. Looking at the OPs photo again I see there is a horizontal section up high that may have enough room to form a trap before making the final drop to the floor. That would be a better spot to put it so it keeps it away from foot traffic. I apologize for missing that before, I’ve been struggling to make any posts with how busy I’ve been lately, and tapatalk does not make answering posts easy (can’t scroll up to view previous postings to gather data, so once you start the response you are limited to what you can remember). The other key point I wanted to show with the photo is that the vent needs to be above the drain pan. Aside from those two items imagination can run wild.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
@azeotrope
Thanks again. I did not want to quote your whole reply.

The vent:
I see from your drawing that it is in addition to the clean out. Got it.
Does that vent need to be capped or covered? I assume not.

The trap:
Your preference would be to have it at the top where the existing horizontal run is, correct? If I do that, where would the trap be then?

The dumping of water:
The front of the house gets a lot of sunlight, so I will assume that the draining water from the rain gutter would dry. But, a little voice tells me that it will look horrible in 6 months.
Ideally, I'd love to have that water dump into the drain of a nearby wash sink, but I don't see a way to tie into it (see picture). How do I get water to go up to the drain?? It's impossible, I know.
655046
 

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@azeotrope.
Ideally, I'd love to have that water dump into the drain of a nearby wash sink, but I don't see a way to tie into it (see picture). How do I get water to go up to the drain?? It's impossible, I know. View attachment 655046
Either use a floor drain or a condensate pump. Get a pump that matches the voltage of your air handler.



Cheers!
 

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@azeotrope
Thanks again. I did not want to quote your whole reply.

The vent:
I see from your drawing that it is in addition to the clean out. Got it.
Does that vent need to be capped or covered? I assume not.

The trap:
Your preference would be to have it at the top where the existing horizontal run is, correct? If I do that, where would the trap be then?

The dumping of water:
The front of the house gets a lot of sunlight, so I will assume that the draining water from the rain gutter would dry. But, a little voice tells me that it will look horrible in 6 months.
Ideally, I'd love to have that water dump into the drain of a nearby wash sink, but I don't see a way to tie into it (see picture). How do I get water to go up to the drain?? It's impossible, I know. View attachment 655046
I need to change my previous thought on moving the trap up. After looking at the picture again I see the horizontal portion I was referencing is not protected by the wooden box that the unit is sitting on. This would leave it hanging in the breeze and susceptible to getting bumped. It would be best to keep the trap down low like my diagram shows. (It’s frustrating not being able to reference previous posts when replying, tapatalk world issues, I apologize for missing that the first time through. )

If you want to dump it into the sink then the condensate pump is a common solution. The ones supers05 linked appear to have the overflow safety switch... At least one did, if not both. Make sure you get one with that switch. Use the switch to shut down the AC if it activates.

You could run the pumps discharge tube up to the ceiling, across the ceiling (in the corner where it meets the wall so it’s as visually hidden as possible, and down beside the cabinet to stick into the sink ( if you don’t care much about the looks of that) or better yet, but more work, down the wall and across again to the under side of the sink where you could connect into the p-trap. If you can make an adapter to connect to it then you could use a dishwasher adapter fitting to connect to the sinks plumbing. There’s other ways to do it as well, not sure what your local hardware store carries. It’s probably easier to take the pump with you and have a look to see what you can make.

In commercial buildings we use a 1/2” FPT to ABS fitting then screw whatever size barb fitting you need (probably 3/8” barb x 1/2” MPT brass fitting). A plastic barb fitting works too, they are just more fragile.
 
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