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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello and thanks for reading.

Before I go and locate where the two receptacles for the washer and dryer will go I thought it wise to ask for advice on the placement or the surface mounted receptacles.

I have chosen the location on the floor tile to drill down into the floor because there was a cut out for a dryer duct that has ceramic tile placed over the hole. I am reinforcing under the floor with a square of plywood before I run the PVC Conduit.

I did not find a stud with the stud-finder so it is drywall and I plan to use proper drywall inserts for the mounting screws.
There is already a 240 V service that is being moved so that is easy there.
I must run a new circuit for the washer and I have a CAFCI 20 Amp breaker and 12-2 for that.

So my question and reason for asking for advice is about placement on the wall.
Since it is near the faucets what are my concerns here?
I was thinking since this is a stack-able washer and dryer that I would come up to near the level of the existing Outlet which will NOT be used to power the washer. Too many outlets on that breaker as it is in my opinion.
The existing 15 Amp outlet is just above the top of picture. I had fun digging out the foamed in box and installing a GFCI since it is near a water source. Someone went Foam-in-the-Electric-Boxes crazy here.

Window Wood Building Grey Floor


Thanks.
 

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1st, that dryer receptacle is 3 wire and today's code requires 4 wire (separate neutral and ground). Also, the washer needs be combo AFCI and GFCI.
Place the receptacles away from the lower center of the dryer to clear the vent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
1st, that dryer receptacle is 3 wire and today's code requires 4 wire (separate neutral and ground). Also, the washer needs be combo AFCI and GFCI.
Place the receptacles away from the lower center of the dryer to clear the vent.
Thank you for your reply.

I am simply moving the outlet for the dryer 10 or so feet. It is already run. Not a new install.


I just picked up a 20 Amp GFCI receptacle. Will that be okay?
CAFCI is for two different kinds of arcing I think. It will have a CAFCI 20 amp breaker.

So no real placement issues then except clearance.
Okay.
 

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You can use a 15 amp GFI.

If you are extending the dryer wiring it triggers the need to upgrade to current requirements.
 

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Because you are extending or moving the dryer wiring, the "grandfathering" that allowed 3-wire connections if installed prior to 1996, is void.

The dryer will require a 4-wire supply. If the original feeder is 4-wire (or 3-wire inside non-flex metal conduit), then you can extend it at a junction box that will remain accessible forever. NEMA 14-30 (4-prong) socket must be used. If the dryer has the obsolete/dangerous NEMA 10 plug, it is easy and cheap to convert to 14-30, just google the instructions.

Notwithstanding any dryer circuit, a laundry area requires a 20A dedicated circuit that serves only receptacle outlets inside the laundry area.

This sort of thing is par for the course for a remodel. Remodels tend to break all grandfathering and force current Code.
 

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You mentioned GFCI receptacle. Remember to locate it accessable, not behind a machine.
Another wrinkle in code is that 240 volt circuits ate also required to be GFCI protected.
 

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None of my business and I don't know where you live but have you considered a dryer vent that close to a door and a window in the winter?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You mentioned GFCI receptacle. Remember to locate it accessable, not behind a machine.
Another wrinkle in code is that 240 volt circuits ate also required to be GFCI protected.
I actually have GFCI breaker rated 20 amps.

Speaking of grandfathering. It looks at one time someone ran a circuit for a "washer" in part of the kitchen where the gas stove and counters/cabinets are now. The problem is they double tapped a breaker to get power.
It looks like I have my homework to do on just what they have done.
I started to make a list and map of what is being powered by what.

I have GFCI breakers for that panel I bought so will use one and use a 20 amp non-gfi receptacle. No double tapping allowed.

Thank you for your reply.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
None of my business and I don't know where you live but have you considered a dryer vent that close to a door and a window in the winter?
I am not sure what you mean but I have a vent that goes in the window.
That window opens both top and bottom.
I decided to do it that way because there are already two holes in the floor where the dryer(s) have been in the past.
Is there something I am not understanding?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Because you are extending or moving the dryer wiring, the "grandfathering" that allowed 3-wire connections if installed prior to 1996, is void.

The dryer will require a 4-wire supply. If the original feeder is 4-wire (or 3-wire inside non-flex metal conduit), then you can extend it at a junction box that will remain accessible forever. NEMA 14-30 (4-prong) socket must be used. If the dryer has the obsolete/dangerous NEMA 10 plug, it is easy and cheap to convert to 14-30, just google the instructions.

Notwithstanding any dryer circuit, a laundry area requires a 20A dedicated circuit that serves only receptacle outlets inside the laundry area.

This sort of thing is par for the course for a remodel. Remodels tend to break all grandfathering and force current Code.
OMG!
No such luck on 10-3. It's 10-2
So I need to get and pull some 10-3.
Well that sucks money wise but right is right. Will do.

Funny, I expected to need to pull 12-2 for that 20 amp for washer but I can hijack a previous washer run after I add a 20 Amp GFCI breaker and get that hot off of a double tap.


It's all good. I did not know these things. Best to do it right.
It won't be all that hard to pull 10-3 and do it right.

Do I need to change the Breaker?

It's interesting. There are two circuits that I don't know what they were for.
I just started to document everything on paper today.
Also digging out foamed in receptacles and switches.

Thank you all for the help and education.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
1st, that dryer receptacle is 3 wire and today's code requires 4 wire (separate neutral and ground). Also, the washer needs be combo AFCI and GFCI.
Place the receptacles away from the lower center of the dryer to clear the vent.
@Wiredindallas
I just ordered a combo breaker.

Thanks for your help.
I was not thinking about your advice and was going to use a GFCI breaker I already have.
 

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I am not sure what you mean but I have a vent that goes in the window.
That window opens both top and bottom.
I decided to do it that way because there are already two holes in the floor where the dryer(s) have been in the past.
Is there something I am not understanding?
If you live in below freezing winter, moist humid air tend to collect and freeze on the coldest surfaces first, like window panes and hardware, and doorknobs and hinges. Maybe you don't have that problem where you are, but maybe that's why they went through the floor in the past.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Okay.

The plan now is run 10-3.
30 Amp GFCI for the dryer
20 Amp Combo GFCI/AFCI for the washer.

Does it sound right?

I am coming up from the crawl-space into 3/4 inch PVC.
I believe I can run the 12-2 and the 10-3 in the crawl-space without conduit. Is that right?
Each run gets it's own PVC pipe once it comes up through the floor.
Wall mount PVC boxes.
Dryer vent will be out the window with a proper vent insert in the window.

I have to admit, it's helpful to come here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If you live in below freezing winter, moist humid air tend to collect and freeze on the coldest surfaces first, like window panes and hardware, and doorknobs and hinges. Maybe you don't have that problem where you are, but maybe that's why they went through the floor in the past.
It can get that cold but mostly not.
It's a risk. Perhaps I will change my mind.
It's my first winter in Southern Illinois. I was a California guy and it might get to 35 F once in a blue moon there but, I understand it can drop into single digits here. I am told that doesn't last long but it does happen around February.
 

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Unless you local area of Illinois is under 2020 NEC, you don not need GFCI in your 30 amp dryer circuit.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X606F using Tapatalk
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Unless you local area of Illinois is under 2020 NEC, you don not need GFCI in your 30 amp dryer circuit.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X606F using Tapatalk
I think Code Enforcement is almost moot in these parts.
However I have one on the way from Amazon.

I am noticing that it's hard to get stuff and when you can it costs a ton of money these days.

Thank you for your reply.
 

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I think Code Enforcement is almost moot in these parts.
However I have one on the way from Amazon.

I am noticing that it's hard to get stuff and when you can it costs a ton of money these days.

Thank you for your reply.
You wrote "Code Enforcement is almost moot in these parts" - and, how safe do you feel with that?
Any electrical "Code" is there for a reason.
Such "codes" are the minimum that whatever regulating authority has been awake to, up to the time of publishing those "codes".
Other jurisdictions may "discover" problems and then update their "codes," leading to updates in other "codes" - and so it goes on.

How comfortable do you feel with making any instillation at the bare minimum that your particular installation "code" will "allow", if you know that a better standard is possible?
 
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