DIY Home Improvement Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi. I need some help. my house was built in 1887...very very old. I've only been here going on 5 years and in that time we have torn down walls and replaced pipes and so on... My husband installed a tongue and groove wood laminate floor over top of what i thought was just old linoleum but.. I guess over the years of changing out cabinettes ...or moving things around..they just built floors around the new installed cabinettes. So, the floor...my husband installed..was spongy and started to buckle and now...its totally DANGEROUS ! pieces lifting, tripping my kids, tongue n groove not holding and popping out never to be able to go back into place unless i undo every plank all the way across the floor. my question is this... What do I do ? Obviously I am taking up the planks of laminate and then underneath..... what do I do ? Is there a miracle product I can throw onto the floor and let everything come up to 1 surface or level ?

I would really like to have a concrete floor...the high traffic of 8 kiddos trampling thru the back door of a farm...into the kitchen with all the mud..dirt..and fuss..and the mess of carrying wood thru for the woodburner in the basement and on the 1st level is just ...well....I really would like something durable and "country lookin".

If anyone can help me, I would appreciate it. Thank u so much .

ps. the kitchen is about 14 wide and 20 long and if I was going to do a new floor I would include the dining room also..which is 14 w and 15 long. I would make the 2 rooms 1 since they are open to each other ( since i knocked out the wall that joined them) and the only thing that makes them 2 different rooms are the very, very noticable .... 2 ...very...different floors.
my cabinettes are built in along the outer walls and I have a big island in the middle L -shaped 3'w x 8'L x 10'd working space ( i built) that holds all my cookware,towels,silverware....(food storage is in a pantry not involved with this flooring problem) I hope Ive given enough info for u to understand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Perhaps you can answer a few questions to help us help you out...

- is your kitchen floor directly on grade or is there a basement or crawl space below it?
- how did your husband install the tongue and groove laminate flooring...glue? nails? glue and nails? is it floating?
- are you hoping to leave your cabinets in place and just install the new flooring up to the cabinet fronts?
- buckling and lifting aside, would you say your floors are relatively level or not so much?

Sounds like you have some great decisions to make!
 

·
A Little Of Everything
Joined
·
2,428 Posts
I'm going to shoot from the hip here, and hope that maybe something is right.

First of all, you need to get those multiple layers of floor covering removed - and that's not going to be fun or easy. One reason is because of the squishiness of it. You just can't have that many layers of flooring down, without there being too much flex. Also, consider the weight. My family lived in an old farmhouse for years (built in 1899), and the floor joists were not exactly "up to code." The original builders did the best they could with what they had, but it wasn't always great.

Second, I'd suggest you make sure the floor joists are solid. You might even need to add to them. Consider ripping some 1/2" or 5/8" plywood (not OSB) and screwing pieces on both sides of your joists for added strength. It's not perfect, but nothing in a 125-year old house is.


For flooring... Have you thought about ceramic or porcelain tile? Considering that you're on a farm, this is an extremely high traffic area, and a lot of gritty dirt gets drug in, it might be worth considering.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
answers to ur ?'s

first, lemme THANK U for any HELP..I appreciate it ! hahaha

I have a basement and it is tall, I'd say the actual floor studs to my kitchen is about 7 feet from the basement floor.

for the floor, only the very edges are nailed in, the rest was popped in and looked great ..but not for very long. Also, the floors aren't the most level anywhere in the house but the kitchen surprisingly doesnt have any NOTICEABLE dips in it.
I told you about the layout of my kitchen so that you would know that the only thing that I would have to build around is that island workspace,which really only half of the thing is stationary ( that would be the side that houses my sink and dishwasher) , the other part of the L shape island are just cabinettes used for storage and to hold up my workspace. I used mdf to build it and then broke up tile and created mosaic type top with an inlayed granite "chopping spot" and grouted it all in. I wouldn't want to pull all that apart and move that part of the L out with all my work..and haffta re-do...but I will If I need to ..it wouldnt be hard, Ive already done it once, and I bet it would go faster and be easier the 2nd time around.;) BUT.... I have 8 kids who I home school ( 15y/o-6y/o ) and I really and truly don't have a lot of T-I-M-E !

I hope this helps you to help me lol ---Pammie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
whats up Doc

thanks alot DR.

Ican count probably 5 layers in some areas of that floor and there is a spot by my fridge where a sink use to be the floors were made and then that long cabinette torn out and then the holes left there and put another floor on that too so when we took up a floor ..heres a floor with holes in where obvioulsy ...water works went into the basement !! and u could tell by water damage , not rot but water ring spots and such.
about the joists..I know what ytou mean about the buildersd using whatever they could...there are LOGS in my home, yes, logs, never ripped into wood boards hahaha and yes, some of that are holding up the floors which is probably why there are 2x4's not screwed but rather these big huge silver bolts going thru the 2x4 into the joist (log). This isn't everywhere but mostly thru the whole house and even when we knocked the kitchen wall, I was surprised to see logs in there too...with BARK....c'mon now geeesh! We found lots of things in the walls tho, old glass bottles, hunks of rock, as in real rocks ..something you would find in a creek, twisted & rolled up paper, and long strips (I guess you would call it) of fabric of some kind.


So, your suggestion is to get everything off?
Im kind of scared of that, the door (heights) and the floors to the other rooms (heights) will all be effected.

Is this what I need to do ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
The trick with flooring is that it's typically as good as the subflooring so I'm in complete agreement with DrHicks. You need to rip up all the layers of flooring and see what condition the underlying subflooring is in. I had to do the same thing in my kitchen. There was an Ikea floating floor that came up easy, a layer of luan held down with serrated nails which was not fun, and a layer of old linoleum which I scraped up with help from a heat gun.

I don't recommend using concrete. Any slab less than 3" thick is going to be susceptible to cracking and I'd be concerned with the weight of the concrete on your 125 year old joists :eek:

I'd suggest you check out a good porcelain tile for durability. Or if you're looking for something a little warmer to the foot and easier to clean, perhaps consider a cork tile or a quality 100% vinyl tile like an Amtico, which is available in some very nice sizes and styles that look nothing like the vinyl tiles of the past. :thumbup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
So, your suggestion is to get everything off?
Im kind of scared of that, the door (heights) and the floors to the other rooms (heights) will all be effected.

Is this what I need to do ?
5 layers. Wow. It all depends on what you're going to put down. If the underlying layers are a softer material, like a vinyl or a lineoleum, you have two problems. Nails will not hold properly through those soft layers and the moisture of a glue may compromise the adhesion of the underlying layers - causing more of that sponginess you love so much. I don't recommend a floating floor for two reasons. 1 - the floor will get a lot of traffic and 2 - any serious spills will find their way between and below a floating floor.

If one of the layers is 1/2" or 3/4" wood (ply or planking), now you have some options. A photo or two may help if you have any.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
maybe I should clarify the squishiness...

the floor that my husband laid down was spongy not the floor underneath tho. There are layers and then holes (old cabinette spots or whatever)
it goes something like this : the laminate that floats...then sticky squares but not everywhere, some are missing, a linoleum that covers the entire floor ..very worn ..and of course..cut out wher4 the old cab. / sink / holes for pipes/wiring was ..then a very thin board like an OSB type but this stuff is really really thin and in some spots the stuff is splintered and even pulled up to reveal linoleum that ive seen at the other end of the kitchen so its prolly the whole length AGAIN and then another layer of board, thicker though like 3/4'' ply..havent seen anything under that but from the basement you can tell that the floor is actual planks...very narrow maybe 3 & 1/2''w planks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
cork or rubber

I thought about a cork floor and even a rubber floor. I thought of those because on one site it said that they are warmer and green...but what about cleaning..couldnt find anything helpful and my kitchen floor is mopped every single day ..no exceptions with clean-ups all day long. with 8 kids...2 dogs....oh, and a husband....this is a must! and the other reason is..it comes in tiles or is sprayed on ....just not sure...

I just need an economical fix that will be RIGHT and fits the needs of this family and house.
Im open to IDEAS !!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
I'm with the other guys....it really needs to taken all up to do it properly.....and some pics.

But I can't help but wonder about the base cabinets. Are they put on top of the old layers? Assuming that the cabinets are fairly new (not from the 1800's) a base cabinet should be roughly 34 1/2" high. A measure from the floor to the top of a base will tell you.

I think your springing new floor is from waves in the old floor. It wouldn't take much gap to have a bounce in it.

OSB should never be used for floor underlayment.
 

·
Pro Flooring Installer
Joined
·
8,056 Posts
It all needs to be removed. But what caused your current problem is, you said this wood floor was nailed only around the edges. That's why it buckled.
 

·
Pro Hack.
Joined
·
30 Posts
how are your floor joists?
what size are your floor joists? 2x6? 2x8? 2x10?
what are they spaced at? 16" on center? more? less?
how long is the span? is there a beam in that span? somewhere under the kitchen?

it may be that. My house was built in 1930 and it has 2x8 joists in the kitchen spaced at 16" on center but it has a long span with one central beam, meaning when we walk on the kitchen floor, it bounces alot so... no tile floor for us, untill next summer when i rip it all up and add supports. (fun fun!)

Another thing, what type of laminate frooring system did you use. i never heard of nailing in the edge boards... that seems to me, would hold the flooring from expanding and contracting with the weather.. and that would make it buckle. if it was / is a "floating" floor, the nails need to go.
 

·
A Little Of Everything
Joined
·
2,428 Posts
how are your floor joists?
what size are your floor joists? 2x6? 2x8? 2x10?
what are they spaced at? 16" on center? more? less?
how long is the span? is there a beam in that span? somewhere under the kitchen?

it may be that. My house was built in 1930 and it has 2x8 joists in the kitchen spaced at 16" on center but it has a long span with one central beam, meaning when we walk on the kitchen floor, it bounces alot so... no tile floor for us, untill next summer when i rip it all up and add supports. (fun fun!)

Another thing, what type of laminate frooring system did you use. i never heard of nailing in the edge boards... that seems to me, would hold the flooring from expanding and contracting with the weather.. and that would make it buckle. if it was / is a "floating" floor, the nails need to go.
Right. You don't nail down laminate flooring. It has to "float."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
my camera is awesome but i can't figure how to take a pic to show you unless i actually start the process and move thngs out..then I can rip up a corner and show you.... ok, the bouncy-ness is whereever the floor only had 4 layers or 3 layers in that spot your walkiung walkung waoking and then you dip in , get it ? ummmm, gosh i wish i knew how to explain better. the cabinettes are bran new...set atop of the new floating floor which in some case make the cabinette kind of rock or tilt..because the layerd underneath are just hit n miss...holes or gaps underneath the layers ..i dont think theres a section in the whole room that doesnt make your foot "fall in a hole"
about the floor..I read the directions to my husbanf and he put it down..it was easy just like a puzzle..didnt have to cut weird pieces or anything just the norm..wall to wall install. I hope this helps.
I was looking up a leveller..if i take out the floating floor and pour leveller over the whole floor ...letting it settle into the gaps and dips and missing sections here n there..will that give me a level working space to fit a new floor to?
 

·
Pro Flooring Installer
Joined
·
8,056 Posts
Cabinets can't go on top of a floating floor. It can't be fastened around the edges. The subfloor must be flat. There has to be an expansion gap around the edges. You must have missed that part of the directions. :laughing:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I was talking about the diredtions to ther installation of the floor... I gutted the kitchen one day beforemy husband came hom and went to buy cabinettes..the next day I sat the4 cabinettes in the place i wanted them and then he ran the plumbing i needed. Yes they sit atop the floating floor...but can easily be moved out to do my NEW PERMANENT FLOOR. with 8 kids..I couldnt wait anylonger for a floor I needed cabinette and workspace NOW. Laugh if you want to..it works for us...for now..I was just asking a question to the professionals !!!!!! on this site.
 

·
Pro Flooring Installer
Joined
·
8,056 Posts
I am a pro. I have been installing flooring for 40 years.
 

·
Retired Moderator
Joined
·
25,769 Posts
Careful there,Doc------------You will have him blushing---
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top