Multi-conductor wire type for lights

451 Views 13 Replies 5 Participants Last post by Chonks, 12 d ago

Chonks

Discussion Starter · 15 d ago

I'm installing strobes in my work truck. I need 16ga for the (+) and 10ga for the ground (-). I know I can ground them anywhere, but for minimum disassembly of the interior, I think it'd be easiest to just run the neg up to the controller and ground it up there. I've wire shopped online and there is a plethora of types of multi conductor wire, all with features that I don't comprehend... and don't want to pay for. I want four 16ga wires and one 10ga wire all in one package for ease of install. What terminology do I need to find regular, flexible (not solid, like speaker wire), electricity carrying copper wire? If multiple sizes isn't possible in one pack, I could get a 16/9 or 14/7 and have multiple grounds to get the capacity I need, but if that's the case I'll probably just get 16/4 and a separate ground.

This is what I'm looking for if my description is inadequate.

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TedIndustries

· #2 · 15 d ago

Chonks said:
I'm installing strobes in my work truck. I need 16ga for the (+) and 10ga for the ground (-). I know I can ground them anywhere, but for minimum disassembly of the interior, I think it'd be easiest to just run the neg up to the controller and ground it up there. I've wire shopped online and there is a plethora of types of multi conductor wire, all with features that I don't comprehend... and don't want to pay for. I want four 16ga wires and one 10ga wire all in one package for ease of install. What terminology do I need to find regular, flexible (not solid, like speaker wire), electricity carrying copper wire? If multiple sizes isn't possible in one pack, I could get a 16/9 or 14/7 and have multiple grounds to get the capacity I need, but if that's the case I'll probably just get 16/4 and a separate ground.

This is what I'm looking for if my description is inadequate.
View attachment 744115

4 #16 & 1 #10 would be something custom, I would get convoluted tubing and just buy the wire off the spools at Home Depot or an auto supply store.

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SW Dweller

· #3 · 15 d ago

Strobes are a heavy load flashing on and off. I would use 18 or 14 stranded wire.

Multi conductor cable is typically not rated for use outside or in the wet and mud.

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seharper

· #4 · 15 d ago

You should use SAE approved automotive wiring unless you want to have problems later. Using solid wire or THHN in a car is asking for trouble. A car is a much more challenging environment than a building wall.

Chonks said:
I want four 16ga wires and one 10ga wire all in one package for ease of install.

Yeah, that seems clever...

... but I've done a lot of work on cars and I've never seen factory harnesses made that way. They use individual wires, gathered into harnesses with spiral wrap and/or convoluted tubing. So yeah, build your own harness and done.

Chonks said:
I've wire shopped online and there is a plethora of types of multi conductor wire, all with features that I don't comprehend... and don't want to pay for.

Yeah, shopping for electrical "online" rarely goes well, especially when it involves a large river in Egypt - I mean Brazil. Everything is stupid overpriced because experienced people don't buy online, so who's left? Novices (very high return rates) and fools who don't care what the price is (Adam Smith says fleece 'em).

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Chonks

Discussion Starter · #5 · 15 d ago

SW Dweller said:
Strobes are a heavy load flashing on and off. I would use 18 or 14 stranded wire.

Multi conductor cable is typically not rated for use outside or in the wet and mud.

I think I'll actually go 14 ga. 16 is on the low side for the advertised 2A load I'm planning on.
I've never thought about number of strands being a factor. It must matter since residential wire is solid.
Everything will be in the cab so it just needs to stand up to heat and humidity.

seharper said:
You should use SAE approved automotive wiring unless you want to have problems later. Using solid wire or THHN in a car is asking for trouble. A car is a much more challenging environment than a building wall.

Yeah, that seems clever...

... but I've done a lot of work on cars and I've never seen factory harnesses made that way. They use individual wires, gathered into harnesses with spiral wrap and/or convoluted tubing. So yeah, build your own harness and done.

Yeah, shopping for electrical "online" rarely goes well, especially when it involves a large river in Egypt - I mean Brazil. Everything is stupid overpriced because experienced people don't buy online, so who's left? Novices (very high return rates) and fools who don't care what the price is (Adam Smith says fleece 'em).

The reason I thought to use multi-conductor is cause it's lower profile/ thinner than multiple wires in a wrap... easier to stuff under the headliner and behind trim. I have no clue about ratings of this stuff. All I see is copper (well.. Al for the cheap stuff but this will be Cu) coated in rubber. I don't even know what SAE means, but I've seen it allot. Speaker wire is my go to wire for basically all DC stuff cause it's cheap, packaged nicely, the correct number of conductors, and easy to work with. I'm sure that'll change if you follow up to this post though

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seharper

· #6 · 15 d ago

It's all about stranding and insulation ratings. How the wire is stranded is important to endure vibration without cracking. Cars endure the worst night cold clear up to 180F from baking in the sun, or a lot hotter in an engine compartment. The insulation needs to perform and not crack or melt in those conditions.

SAE is the Society for Automotive Engineers, which is a trade association of automakers that writes technical standards for car things, so suppliers are on the same page with automakers, and someone wiring a harness for an automaker knows what standard to build to. When the government decided to regulate automakers, they were like "wow, your industry standards are pretty good, we'll just codify those and not reinvent the wheel here". That's part of the point of SAE, to have good enough internal standards that the government leaves them alone. A lot of industries do that.

My best source for automotive wire and cable is Pick-n-Pull. Almost no one goes in there for a wiring harness. And if I'm buying something else and I mention a hank of wire, they don't even charge me for it lol.

I see cars where people used speaker wire for, y'know, speakers... and the wires don't age well.

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TedIndustries

· #7 · 14 d ago

The strobes are real Xenon strrobes or just very bright LEDs?
Maybe you buy a trailor lighting kit at wally world comes with 4 long stranded wire SAE rated, then just add your #10 fget a spool at the automotive or rv or tractor supply store..and the tubing and just junk the trailor lights on eBay

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Chonks

Discussion Starter · #8 · 14 d ago

TedIndustries said:
The strobes are real Xenon strrobes or just very bright LEDs?
Maybe you buy a trailor lighting kit at wally world comes with 4 long stranded wire SAE rated, then just add your #10 fget a spool at the automotive or rv or tractor supply store..and the tubing and just junk the trailor lights on eBay

They're LED. A quick search for trailer wire yielded some very interesting results. Check out the first link I clicked. There's several multi-gauge multi-conductor wires.

Trailer Cable | WireAndCableYourWay.com

We stock Trailer Cable Wire in a variety of gauge sizes for your electrical needs. Available in several spool lengths. Order today for fast shipping!

www.wireandcableyourway.com

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TedIndustries

· #9 · 14 d ago

Chonks said:
They're LED. A quick search for trailer wire yielded some very interesting results. Check out the first link I clicked. There's several multi-gauge multi-conductor wires.

Trailer Cable | WireAndCableYourWay.com

We stock Trailer Cable Wire in a variety of gauge sizes for your electrical needs. Available in several spool lengths. Order today for fast shipping!

www.wireandcableyourway.com

Hey this man internetz.

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seharper

· #10 · 13 d ago

Well, traditionally strobes weren't a huge surge load, because they didn't - like - sit there drawing 0 amps then suddenly draw 100 amps for the millisceond they flash the light. They sit there drawing 0.5 amps continuously charging a capacitor, then dump the capacitor into the strobe in 1 millisecond, then charge again.

I don't know how LED strobes work, maybe it's that same trick. LEDs can be spectacularly overloaded for very short times, the limit on LEDs is thermal mostly.

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Chonks

Discussion Starter · #11 · 13 d ago

seharper said:
Well, traditionally strobes weren't a huge surge load, because they didn't - like - sit there drawing 0 amps then suddenly draw 100 amps for the millisceond they flash the light. They sit there drawing 0.5 amps continuously charging a capacitor, then dump the capacitor into the strobe in 1 millisecond, then charge again.

I don't know how LED strobes work, maybe it's that same trick. LEDs can be spectacularly overloaded for very short times, the limit on LEDs is thermal mostly.

LEDs are probably far less demanding than traditional strobes. I forget if I was reading about lights or controllers, but one of them recommended a duty cycle (time led is on) to be 50%. That probably means the led is a bit overpowered for its size.

Another way to look at it is they’ll probablydraw More current than a headlight, and those wires aren’t too beefy.

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AllanJ

· #12 · 13 d ago (Edited)

There are two kinds of xenon lamps.
1. A variety of halogen lamp, has a relatively small capsule containing xenon gas to allow higher temperature and design voltage to get a whiter light, and retard evaporation (aging; burn out) of a (the) tungsten incandescent filament.
2. Similar to a mercury lamp,and uses xenon instead of mercury vapor to get a whiter light where an arc excites the gas to emit the light. More robust than mercury and halide lamps, using a quartz instead of glass bulb, because of higher temperatures and pressures. Commonly used for movie projectors.

A high amperage burst to fire a strobe light would not overheat wires sized for a somewhat lower "average" amperage but even a brief high amperage can cause voltage drop in a long run of wire , enough to change the behavior of the lamp.

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TedIndustries

· #13 · 12 d ago

Wonderful...

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Chonks

Discussion Starter · #14 · 12 d ago

How important is it to get electrical capacities right? I worked hard to guestimate the wire size and relay capacity I need. For maximum current expected (I'd bet actual is half of the numbers I'm using, but say it's correct) I need 14ga wire and a 2A relay. What if I used 20 or 28 ga wire and half or a quarter the relay size? I'd bet that many automotive electrical installs are vastly under speced by folks who have no idea that it matters... Except for audio guys. The audio world is all about big numbers. Gotta have 00 power wire and a 140A fuse to run that 2000W amp off your Carolla's 80A alternator

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