MOEN bathtub faucet: stuck open

TheEplumber said:

I haven't changed that cartridge in a long time. Not sure about that tool either. But if you get one, you might consider getting a cartridge puller too.

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Those words are echo'ing now in my head.

Went to my plumbing shop this morning; they had the Moen nut tool #14272 waiting for me there (I had sent an email Saturday evening). Thought I was good to go, but the valve is not just pulling out easily. The valve is a good 3" down into the sleeve and there's not much room to work with this. I'm currently trying to use the nylon extension to grab the valve and remove it, but the $30 tool (added picture above) might have been the smart purchase in hindsight... I'm just really on a budget so I was hesitant.

I'm going to try sending dishsoap as a lubricant down the shaft to see if that doesn't help me out - otherwise I'm going to have to drive 30 minutes back to the plumbing shop and grab that tool. <grrrrrrr> I spoke to the two guys there and they thought this valve should come out quasi-easily with just long needle nose pliers; but so far it seems to be pretty stubborn. This valve could be 12 years old and our water is pretty hard and so minerals might be working against me...

Any other ideas besides dishsoap? Thanks. (MOEN SUGGESTED VINEGAR.)

EDIT: Moen themselves mentioned to me try using "vinegar" to break any minerals. Secondly, the tool (t-handle valve puller) that I added a picture of above, Moen is telling me that's an after market. The woman I spoke to at Moen stated she doesn't think that will work on my valve. Lastly, the plumbing shop gave me a Valve cartridge 1224 but she states those are cartridges for dual handle sink faucets; the tub will use a different diameter valve (I think she said 1248) - but I won't know for sure until I can get the valve out. I sure hope the vinegar works because that valve doesn't feel like it's coming out - and the nylon makes it very difficult to grab it and pull it out; ESPECIALLY 1.5" recessed into the brass sleeve. <sigh>

Heading to the hardware store while the vinegar soaks on the valve/minerals. I'm going to try and get a longer screw from the "extension" so that I can put a screw directly into the valve stem and use pliers to pull on it directly.

:thumbup:
CONCLUSION: My valve did not easily pull out AT ALL. I tried the vinegar but I don't think it was necessary, my valve showed ZERO signs of any mineral build up - which is not surprising, the valve is <12 years old. HOWEVER, when I finally got the valve to break loose and come up - some metal fragments (solder slag?) came up too. I SUSPECT that these metal pieces got lodged into the valve, making it malfunction - AND - also acted like a wedge which is why my valve didn't just pull straight out.

I ended up putting a #10x2" screw into the top of the valve (where the nylon extension normally screws in) and I pulled with pliers; when that didn't work, I got my hammer and used the claw (see picture above). You probably won't need to do that as I think stray material was the cause of ALL OF THIS for me.

Regardless, I hope this helps someone out there. I'm not a plumber, this was a new experience for me, the new valve is in and working fine and I think I'm good to go.

NOTE: Most hardware stores have the 1224 valve; that is for the sinks not the roman tubs. The tub valve is slightly larger diameter, I believe part #1248

TheEplumber said:

Moen cartridges are notorious for sticking. I highly recommend using a puller. There are a couple of threads here discussing cartridge removal when it actually breaks inside the valve body- the inner core comes out but the outer piece has adhered to the body- not a good scenario.

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I was so scared of the valve breaking apart, it's where all my trepidation came from. However, in regards to using a puller - I purchased two different pullers and found a third. Because of the depth the valve was in the sleeve, the Moen puller wouldn't work. I found a second puller (aftermarket) and the bolt reached the valve stem, but I could not get a good grab so that puller was pointless and has to be returned. The long T-handle puller I found on Amazon.com I'm pretty sure is not for this nylon style valve; but I can't be sure - I couldn't see how it "attaches" to the stem of the valve. So while others might find a puller that works in this scenario (I remain skeptical), the pullers I bought did not work.

I still believe the debris is what was causing my valve to stick (and malfunction) - but maybe not. I'll never know for sure. I was going to tackle the cold water valve too, but I don't think it's necessary... plus Lowe's had no more of the bigger replacement valves. So as they say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Hear Hear!!