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Discussion Starter #1
I got a shingled roof. Looks like 4 layers. They are old and worn. I got someone who says we can put a metal roof right over them. Is this a good idea? Or should we have to do a complete tear of, put down some plywood, and then the metal roof? I'm not sure how metal roofs work exactly? Any help would be great. Thanks...:thumbup:
 

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I'm curious about metal roofs too. I can't imagine anyone would tell you that it's OK to put a metal roof over 4 layers of shingles though. Maybe someone will chime in with some good links for metal roofs. :)
 

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I put a new metal roof on over the shingles, and put foam insulation on too. I see a big difference in the summer with AC not coming as much. The retailer I got it from leave the shingles on. He also said the lighter the color the more heat reflection you will get.
 

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That just seems insane to me, and probably against the code too.

The integrity of a metal roofing system depends on the flashing details and the fastening of the system. Going through that many layers of old, brittle and decrepit aged roofing shingles would seem that the fasteners would be too prone to back out due to expansion and contraction and also by the toggling effect.

That would not be adviseable and would probably cost you much more money to fix correctly in the long, or even short run.

Ed
 

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I was referring to the poster who already has 4 layers on now, which already is in violation of any codes I know of.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Its a house...

Its a house in upstate NY in a small little town. I don't think its breaking any codes. I'm not positive though. We bought the house and it was like this. This roof must be at least 40 years old...

Guess I shouldn't put Metal up over 4 layers of shingles???:eek:
 

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It most definitely is against the national codes, which all towns reference, even if they do not enforce them.

You may be mistaken if you counted the layers yourself, because each layer of shingles look like 2 layers to the untrained eye.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #9
ok so if it has 2...

Yeah i could be wrong. Maybe it only has 2 layers of shingles. Then can I just put a metal roof over it? Does this make a difference? Again it is a very old roof. And their have been leaks and water damage to ceilings inside...:eek:
 

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Around here people will strip the roof with 1x4 lumber then install the metal on that, seems to work, but I wouldent care for the extra weight. I put a metal roof on my house when I built it, no plywood decking just 2x6 strips across the trusses and metal screwed down to the strips kinda like a barn roof. Oh, lest I forget to mention if you use this method count on r-40 attic insulation to hold out the cold.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
here are some pictures please help guys

Pictures of the inside roof structure. Any advice would be welcome! Thank You all :thumbsup:
 

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Hello,

With the snow load that you may get each year I would advise you to tear it all off and start fresh. I install a lot of metal and the added weight of that plus the snow, plus the old roofing would be too much weight(IMO). Ed makes some very good points about the codes and such also.


Keith
 

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new york should only allow 2 layers,and if it`s upstate we`re talking mega snow,basically you`re better to remove an old roof with moisture problems than to cover it and allow it to get worse underneath,possibly even grow mold,rip it fix damage,then do the metal-the guys are right,especially the guy who mentioned r-40 insulation,and the weight of the snow load as Keith mentioned
 

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With the amount of moisture that has already affected the rafters and decking, not to even mention the soaking of the insulation, this should be a "No-Brainer" to decide on removing the existing roof layers, whether 2 layers or 4 layers, just for the fact of repairing the wet and rotted wood and to have access to the attic to efficiently replace the wet insulation.

From your interior attic photos, I would guess that this home once had a cedar shingle roof on it, which lasted at least 50 years on top of skip shething, space board decking. Then, either after an additional layer of composition shingles were added, which would have lasted 20-30 years, the previous owner had the roofs removed down to the skip sheathing. The decking is now solid sheating, with either the gaps being filled in, or the new sheathing being applied over the spaced decking.

I doubt, from your photos, that you have 4 layers on there currently, but you still need to remove the old roofs to do the repair properly and replace the rotted sections. There also may be more evidence of mold growth gowing on, as the section of rafters in one photo clearly showed significant growth already.

When the roof is being done, ensure that you have a properly balanced system of fresh air intake ventilation and roof top, ridge exhaust ventilation.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #16
hoping to

Hoping to do a complete tear off. Then put down all new plywood and put down shingles or possibly a metal roof. Planning to get it done this coming spring. I can't see getting it done in the winter. Sounds like Spring would be better. Thanks for all the Help :thumbsup:
 

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Make sure that the contractors all have the opportunity to get inside of your attic to inspect the rafters.

It looks like, from your 3rd and 4th photos, that there may be too much rot occurring on those rafters to be comfortable with and there are probably more that you did not take photos of too.

They probably can "sister" in new rafters right next to them, unless they are falling apart.

Ventilation will be key, though. Also, you probably do not have to replace all of the plywood decking on top of the skip sheathing, but just to cover you butt, get an option for pricing that out with your contractor. Most of the surface applied decking is probably still in good shape, just not where thew leak stains are located.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I got a quote for between 4-5K. He wants to do a tear off and then put up plywood and Architectural shingles. And he was talking about putting up ridge vents. Does this sound about right? Don't think he said anything about adding rafters though...

He said I could do a metal roof if wanted also. Its up to me. Metal would be a little more.

He is pretty well known in the area and has done several roofs.


 

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There are so many factors that go into a proper roofing project.

Firstly, disregarding anyones price, which contractor that you interviewed had the most knowledge and the most detailed specifications?

If it is not written down in the proposal, it is not part of the contract.

If the contractor who gave you the most confidence winds up being the higher priced contractor, please take the time to set up an additional appointment with him, and show the other proposal. Ask where he sees any vast disparities in the specifications.

If those differences are significant enough to you and you can see the benefit of the additional value of a properly trained and quality oriented work force and also if the specifications for the protection of your home, which is probably your most valuable asset, are the most proficient and precisely detailed, you may want to consider using that contractor instead.

Your roof is steep. It is dangerous to work on. Don't let anybody fool you about how they never have any accidents. They can happen.

Does the contractor use empoloyees or farm the job out to subcontractors? Is so, is the subcontractor licensed? Is he insured? Does he pay his employees with actual wages or does he hide the fact from the government and misclassify them as individual subcontractors?

How can you find that information out? Ask for the crew foremans name and one other roofer that will be on the crew working on your home. Then ask for the most current check stub which shows the taxes deducted. If they fail to provide you with this validation, they have something to hide. Period! Don't trust them from that point on.

Here, I just recently posted this in another topic thread, but it will be a valuable guide for you on how to choose a good contractor and what questions to ask them.

Follow the guidelines and most importantly, check on the items I just spoke of and also previous references.

Also, ask for a home owner who they had a problem job with and how they straightened it out to everyones mutual satisfaction. If they have been in business for any reasonable length of time, they will have had some obstacles in their desire to achieve customer satisfaction.

It is not as important that they had any problems, but more so, how did they react to resolve them. That will show their true character.

Ed


Roofing is Not Brain Surgery. There are many Wrong ways to roof a house. But…There is only…One “Right Way”, By Following All of the Manufacturers Specifications. Over 90 % of All Roofs Done - DO NOT Qualify for the Manufacturers Long Term Warranty!!! ( According to studies by GAF Roofing Corp., Air Vent Inc., & Alcoa )
10 Very Important Tips You Should Always Follow

“What You Should Know Before Hiring Any Contractor!!!”


1) RELIABILITY: Verify that the contractor you call has been in business in your area for At Least 10 Years. Over 85 % of all roofing contractors are out of business in less than 5 years, way before the warranty expires and before many roofing problems begin to show up and cause problems. 85 % of those remaining do not last till the 10th year. (Department of Labor Statistics)

2) INTERVIEW: Make time to meet with any contractor you call, in person, at your home to review the proposal and detailed specifications. Try to select a Knowledgeable, Organized, Experienced, and Locally Established contractor who will take a personal interest in your roofing project. Choose one who has an established track record of many similar roofing projects done in your local area. If they will farm out your roofing job to an unknown subcontractor, you should interview them as well.

3) REFERENCES: Insist on a minimum of at least 20 - 50 recent job references & also several from each year they say they were in business. Ask for customer testimonials. Drive past several of the jobs to check for proper venting, flashing details, and general appearance. Ask previous customers if they were satisfied and if they would use them again. Contact your local building inspector for verification.

4) BUYER BEWARE: Be suspicious if any contractor requires you to get the roofing permit. The party who applies for the permit is responsible for building code compliance. What happens when the roofing specs do not conform to the local codes? Why won’t they be responsible for it? Also, Do Not Ever pay more than 50 % when paying a deposit.

5) ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER:Make sure that the contractor actually has a physical location that you can find if you need to locate them in the future, not just a mailbox etc., drop box. Do they have an actual office and material storage shop or just work out of the back of their pick up truck. Make sure they have an actual local telephone # and not just a cell phone. When problems occur, it is much easier to find someone if you already know how to, in advance. Check out his drivers license address.

6) LICENSE, INSURANCE AND BONDS: Insist on receiving a copy of the Contractors State of Illinois Roofing License, General Liability Insurance, Workers Compensation Insurance and their Roofing Bond. Don’t just assume they have it because they tell you so. They should have enough pride in themselves to include a copy for each customer.

7) PROPOSAL AND/OR CONTRACT:Insist on a very thorough and detailed written proposal and examine it for complete descriptions of the work and specifications, including approximate length of the job and payment procedures. Verbal agreements should be added to the written agreement. You MUST, by law, be advised in writing of your 3-Day “Right To Rescind” if you change your mind and receive all of your deposit money refunded to you.

8) EMPLOYEES OR SUB-CONTRACTORS: If your contractor farms out the job to a sub-contracting crew, they too must supply you with their Roofing License, General Liability and Workers Compensation Insurance and Roofing Bond. If they don’t and someone gets hurt, you may be liable. The sub-contractor should be interviewed as well. Dedicated trained experienced Employees are more desirable due to continuing training and experience.

9) CONTRACTOR TRADE ASSOCIATIONS: Quality control begins with dedication, the amount of proper knowledge and previous training from past projects and from advanced learning through many contractor trade associations. Memberships in any related trade association and certificates of completion from manufacturers product training classes authenticate the more dedicated professional.


10) USE YOUR NOGGIN: 85 % of all construction lawsuits involve roofing related problems. You only have one chance to make the “Right 1st Choice”. If one contractor tells you something extremely different than another contractor, then either do your own research or have the contractor provide documentation to justify and support his analysis, especially about Intake & Exhaust Ventilation, Plywood vs. OSB Particle Board, Ice & Water Shield & Flashings.

You need to be concerned with the initial price only once… But you are going
to be concerned about Quality…for many years to come!!!
The following named Roofing Contractor is an esteemed selected board member of the Professional Roofers Advisory Council, (PRAC). If You Want Solutions, Not Problems, Call…
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thank You Ed

Ed thanks for all these tips. Yeah I want to get it done right. I want it to last a long, long time. And doing it right will be the way for that to happen...

I have had several different estimates already. From 5K-13,5000. I will continue to have.... Thanks again...:thumbsup:
 
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