[miamicuse]

I have a metal fence in the front portion of the property. I am pretty sure it's iron because it's quite rusted LOL. The fence is 6 feet tall with posts about eight feet apart.

According to the city it was permitted and installed in 1992. So it lasted 27 years. It rains A LOT in South Florida and occasionally the front of the property and the street gets flooded with storm water. Over the years the metal posts rusted, and rusted, and rusted at the base.

I have about eighty feet of this fence, and twelve posts rusted to varying degrees, this is probably the worst one. The posts were set in concrete, but the concrete was lower than the ground.


I am looking for suggestions to REPAIR the posts.


Now you might wonder, why not just take it all out and put a new fence up? Well, that's my preference too, but it's not an option, for reasons I will explain in the next post, to avoid this post becoming too long and tedious.

 

[miamicuse]

OK the reason the fence cannot be replaced is because I am not allowed to. The city's zoning code has changed in 2008 or 2010 I don't remember when, and now the new code is much more strict.


First, it requires a fence, if facing a street, to be set a minimum of three feet from the property lines. My current fence is eight inches inside of the property line. I cannot move it back three feet. If I go back three feet I have boulders the size of double door refrigerators and large trees there. Plus I have 32"X32" concrete columns on each end.


Second, even if I move a fence back three feet, the city requires that I plant a series of shrubs in that three feet, spaced 24" each, select the shrub species from an approved list of a dozen of so plants. I can't plant these for the same reasons, the tree roots and concrete boulders is impossible to move or demolish.


Third, if your property has two sides facing two streets, which is my case, you must go from the property corner and back 25 feet back on each property line, then you draw a line across to form a triangle, which is what they call a sight triangle to make it easier for a car to make a right turn without blocking signs. The new fence must be completely inside the triangle, so I am losing 25 feet on each side. Well that is a problem because the triangle is now crossing over part of my swimming pool. The city said I could fill in the pool so I can build the new fence to be compliant with the sight triangle.


Bottom line is I cannot put in a new fence where it is now. However, I can repair the old fence (which is now legal but non-conforming) for as long as I like. I have to find a way to creatively "repair" this and I would appreciate some collective brain storming here if possible.

 

[miamicuse]

One option I have been thinking about, would be to cut the top of the fence post cap off, then insert a round aluminum pipe with an OD just smaller than the square tube fence post. Then try to pound the pipe into the ground and hope that it will go down and past the rusted section and further down as far as it will go, then I can weld the outer metal tube and the inner pipe together at the bottom (where the rusted out section is) and weld back the top again. I have no idea if this will work.

 

[Nealtw]

What do they consider a rebuild and what is a repair?

 

[Nealtw]

One option I have been thinking about, would be to cut the top of the fence post cap off, then insert a round aluminum pipe with an OD just smaller than the square tube fence post. Then try to pound the pipe into the ground and hope that it will go down and past the rusted section and further down as far as it will go, then I can weld the outer metal tube and the inner pipe together at the bottom (where the rusted out section is) and weld back the top again. I have no idea if this will work.

depending on how far it would go down into good metal and the new would have to be steel if you want to weld it.

 

[SPS-1]

....insert a round aluminum pipe with an OD just smaller than the square tube fence post. Then try to pound the pipe into the ground and hope that it will go down and past the rusted section and further down as far as it will go.....

That would be steel, not iron.

But if the post is set in concrete, how are you going to pound a pipe into it ?

If the concrete plug is reasonably flat and large enough diameter, new posts could be built with a square flange at the bottom, with four holes, that could be anchored into the concrete. Replacing rusted sections from the fencing is probably no big deal to an outfit that builds that type of fence ---- it won't be cheap, but not a big deal to have it done.

Or... Put in new posts, 24" offset from the existing posts. Would work best if the last posts could remain. Means cutting up at least one 8' section into a 2' plus a 6' section.

 

[miamicuse]

What do they consider a rebuild and what is a repair?

Yes LOL.


I am unable to get an answer to this question after being at the building services for three hours.


What is a repair? There are several ways they answered that.


If I hire someone to do the work, for a fence less than $500 is considered repair. For a roof it's more than 10% of the total roof area.


But they are not able to give me a "fit all answer".


I said, so what if I put in a new post, right in between each pair of existing post, and leave the old posts untouched, but weld the fence panel to the new posts, is this considered repair?


"Ummm...NO"


the example they gave me, for a wood fence, is if the wood post is leaning, if I right it, then it's a repair. If the base is rotted, and I reinforced it with a fence mender plate, then it's repair. But if I set a new post, then it's not a repair.


Then I said, what if I plant a tree in the middle of each pair of posts, with the tree trunk the size of a soda can, then wait a year for the tree root to take, then I just tie the fence panels directly to the trees with ropes and chains, thus making the trees the new posts, would that be a repair?


I got a "I don't think this is funny" look.


On top of that, the new code always says if your fence gate swings out, and when it's in it's fully opened position the gate will cross the property line, you must move you fence back so that the gate will not open beyond the property line, or you change it to swing in, even if it means you have to regrade your driveway so the gate will not catch when swinging in.


So I don't know if they can even tell me a hard rule on repair vs new build. I do think whatever it is, if I can do it one post at a time, with time apart, it can be argued it's a repair.

 

[miamicuse]

That would be steel, not iron.

But if the post is set in concrete, how are you going to pound a pipe into it ?

I may not be able to. It depends on whether they poured the concrete, then dip the post into position, in which case it will be filled with concrete inside.


However, if they position the post first, may be holding it this way and that to check for level and plumb, then have someone else pour around it, then there is a chance the middle is mostly hollow.

That would be steel, not iron.
Or... Put in new posts, 24" offset from the existing posts. Would work best if the last posts could remain. Means cutting up at least one 8' section into a 2' plus a 6' section.

They will not let me put a new post between each pair of posts. Said that's not a repair. That doesn't mean I cannot do it, one at a time, weeks apart, quietly...but I would like to consider all options first.

 

[Nealtw]

drill and epoxy the rod in the concrete.And find some long angle brackets to attach the bars

 

[SPS-1]

Do you have enough good concrete to mount a bunch of these :

 

[SPS-1]

Said that's not a repair. That doesn't mean I cannot do it, one at a time, weeks apart, quietly...

Love it.

 

[de-nagorg]

Those items in #10 have potential.

Done 1 at a time over the summer, as a repair of each post.

Florida has "screwy" laws.

Here if you rebuild it completely as it was, you are still in code of when it was originally built.

So you could rebuild your fence in one week and not be hassled by " City Hall".


ED

 

[miamicuse]

drill and epoxy the rod in the concrete.And find some long angle brackets to attach the bars

Nealw, thank you, just to be clear, you mean to find some long L bracket/angle, to do the same thing the HDU5 part is doing to the wood post in the picture above? It would need to be a long angle to get to the good metal? If I do it this way I wonder if I need to do it on two sides? all four sides?

 

[miamicuse]

Do you have enough good concrete to mount a bunch of these :

I have to check. This may work. I do know the concrete at the top is not flat and smooth, so this thing will not be sitting snug there may be gaps under it. I suspect each post will be a bit different.

 

[miamicuse]

Those items in #10 have potential.

Done 1 at a time over the summer, as a repair of each post.

Florida has "screwy" laws.

Here if you rebuild it completely as it was, you are still in code of when it was originally built.

So you could rebuild your fence in one week and not be hassled by " City Hall".

ED

They consider these "Legal but non-conforming" so if you ever need to make changes you have to bring all of it into compliance with current code.


I know someone who has the back yard deck done with concrete and bricks. Then they passed the code years later to require all single family homes in the area to have a minimum of 40% grass or shrubs. So if you have a 6000SF lot, you need 2400SF of grass on your property. Because of the concrete deck in the back, he has less than 2400SF when they passed the laws later. He thought the same, he was grandfathered in. Until one day his concrete driveway in the front had big cracks from settling. He has to redo his driveway. The city said no way you can redo your driveway, you are grandfathered in until you do "new work", redoing the driveway is new work, now he has to find a way to get to the 2400SF of grass by cutting out a bunch of his concrete deck in the back in order to get permission to redo his driveway. He didn't want to do it so he opted to just fill the crack and overlay which doesn't fix the problem and he had to redo it every so often.

 

[de-nagorg]

I have to check. This may work. I do know the concrete at the top is not flat and smooth, so this thing will not be sitting snug there may be gaps under it. I suspect each post will be a bit different.

Fill the gaps with BRASS washers, to be able to tighten the bolts enough to support the fencing.


ED

 

[Nealtw]

Nealw, thank you, just to be clear, you mean to find some long L bracket/angle, to do the same thing the HDU5 part is doing to the wood post in the picture above? It would need to be a long angle to get to the good metal? If I do it this way I wonder if I need to do it on two sides? all four sides?

Side to side will be fine if the fence is attached to the post. I was thinking a block or something under the bigger bracket and you might need 2 of those.
They come in a bunch of sizes and shapes so you might find one that would do it with one.

An iron works shop could make up the angle brackets for you.

 

[de-nagorg]

They consider these "Legal but non-conforming" so if you ever need to make changes you have to bring all of it into compliance with current code.


I know someone who has the back yard deck done with concrete and bricks. Then they passed the code years later to require all single family homes in the area to have a minimum of 40% grass or shrubs. So if you have a 6000SF lot, you need 2400SF of grass on your property. Because of the concrete deck in the back, he has less than 2400SF when they passed the laws later. He thought the same, he was grandfathered in. Until one day his concrete driveway in the front had big cracks from settling. He has to redo his driveway. The city said no way you can redo your driveway, you are grandfathered in until you do "new work", redoing the driveway is new work, now he has to find a way to get to the 2400SF of grass by cutting out a bunch of his concrete deck in the back in order to get permission to redo his driveway. He didn't want to do it so he opted to just fill the crack and overlay which doesn't fix the problem and he had to redo it every so often.

Sounds more and more like a HOA , has taken over your city.

Wants everyone to match everyone else.

Maybe the bureaucrats need a lesson in humanity.:vs_laugh:


ED

 

[rjniles]

Move to northwest Florida, the Yankees have taken over southern Florida.

 

[miamicuse]

Sounds more and more like a HOA , has taken over your city.

Wants everyone to match everyone else.

Maybe the bureaucrats need a lesson in humanity.

ED

Yes but worse because with an HOA you can change things if you change leadership. With city ordinance you have no chance.

Imagine if you have a double gate right at the property line and you cannot redo it because the gate swings out 5 feet over the property line and now to redo it you have to recess the gate five feet to be compliant. So no one redo their gates because it's not practical, then they just let things rot and rot...until the next major hurricane, if it blows over then you are forced to do it.