Painting is a fine science to which I am not familiar. The guys that are good are always amazing to me.
Mediocre coverage: cheap roller or what?
Finally getting to painting my bathroom walls. Put down Gardz over the mud then two coats of Miller PVA primer. Just rolled on a coat of Miller Evolution latex, which was their recommendation for bathroom humidity. It seems to me that it is more viscous or thick than the SW Duration paint I put in our other bathroom, but that was early last fall, so I may not remember clearly.
I felt like the coverage wasn't great. I was laying it on pretty thick with a 3/8" nap roller, and when I tried to blend one area into another, the roller nap seemed to pick up and leave pale spots in the first section unless I kept it really wet. Is this normal when putting a first coat of color over white primer? Or is that typical of a cheap roller? I bought a six-pack of economy rollers because my first experience with Gardz was that I could not get rollers used with that clean enough to reuse them, and I don't have any better 3/8" rollers on hand at the moment.
I do have a couple of nicer 3/4" rollers, but that seemed excessive.
Do I need a better roller, better technique, or simply patience?
I felt like the coverage wasn't great. I was laying it on pretty thick with a 3/8" nap roller, and when I tried to blend one area into another, the roller nap seemed to pick up and leave pale spots in the first section unless I kept it really wet. Is this normal when putting a first coat of color over white primer? Or is that typical of a cheap roller? I bought a six-pack of economy rollers because my first experience with Gardz was that I could not get rollers used with that clean enough to reuse them, and I don't have any better 3/8" rollers on hand at the moment.
I do have a couple of nicer 3/4" rollers, but that seemed excessive.
Do I need a better roller, better technique, or simply patience?
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Finally getting to painting my bathroom walls. Put down Gardz over the mud then two coats of Miller PVA primer. Just rolled on a coat of Miller Evolution latex, which was their recommendation for bathroom humidity. It seems to me that it is more viscous or thick than the SW Duration paint I put in our other bathroom, but that was early last fall, so I may not remember clearly.
I felt like the coverage wasn't great. I was laying it on pretty thick with a 3/8" nap roller, and when I tried to blend one area into another, the roller nap seemed to pick up and leave pale spots in the first section unless I kept it really wet. Is this normal when putting a first coat of color over white primer? Or is that typical of a cheap roller? I bought a six-pack of economy rollers because my first experience with Gardz was that I could not get rollers used with that clean enough to reuse them, and I don't have any better 3/8" rollers on hand at the moment.
I do have a couple of nicer 3/4" rollers, but that seemed excessive.
Do I need a better roller, better technique, or simply patience?
Seriously Guardz, two coats of PVA then two coats of latex???
It's real simple: quit using bottom dollar PVA primers, paint and for smooth wall use a quality 1/2" nap roller cover like Wooster Prodooz or E&J microfiber.
Superspec 253 primer, no need for guardz. Tint your primer for certain colors.
2 coats Regal Select eggshell or pearl.
Done. Easy.
Were you hoping to cover in one coat? I always figure on two coats of cut-in and two coats rolled. If you already have the paint, buy another 3/8 roller and put another coat on.
I know every home improvement show ever filmed says to use a 3/8" nap roller. Ditch that idea. They simply do not hold enough paint. 1/2" always unless you're covering heavy texture. Purdy Marathons are great. And, always, I repeat, always 2 coats unless by some great stroke of luck you are painting over the EXACT same color.
Yeah, I gotta wonder what possesses people to put multiple coats of primer on. One coat of primer (and thats ONLY if its raw drywall or mud,) whether its gardz, PVA, or 123, then two topcoats. 1/2" is always good. I usually use 3/4" on texture, but I have no problem with a 1/2" either. 3/8" are good for certain things, but walls are not one of them.
P.S., I have never in my life felt the need to tint wall primer, for normal colors, anyway. Bright reds, yellow, or oranges are a different story, and another ballgame... But all in all, keep your primer white, and if you see white after your second coat, you didnt put the paint on enough. Do it a third time. It aint rocket surgery, people.
P.S., I have never in my life felt the need to tint wall primer, for normal colors, anyway. Bright reds, yellow, or oranges are a different story, and another ballgame... But all in all, keep your primer white, and if you see white after your second coat, you didnt put the paint on enough. Do it a third time. It aint rocket surgery, people.
Yeah, I gotta wonder what possesses people to put multiple coats of primer on. One coat of primer (and thats ONLY if its raw drywall or mud,) whether its gardz, PVA, or 123, then two topcoats. 1/2" is always good. I usually use 3/4" on texture, but I have no problem with a 1/2" either. 3/8" are good for certain things, but walls are not one of them.
P.S., I have never in my life felt the need to tint wall primer, for normal colors, anyway. Bright reds, yellow, or oranges are a different story, and another ballgame... But all in all, keep your primer white, and if you see white after your second coat, you didnt put the paint on enough. Do it a third time. It aint rocket surgery, people.
I do tinted primers sometimes if a garage is spec'd as a prime + 1 coat for example. I can usually color match pretty close with minimal effort.
Going over certain reds, yellows, oranges.. gold/biege. Will also do a tinted primer. Takes no time at all to dispense a quart formula into a primer.
That makes no sense at all to me. There is ZERO reason to use a primer over reds, and yellows, and whatnot, unless theres some adhesion concern or something, obviously. Those colors ore problematic to apply, not cover over. Sometimes you could use the flat version of that particular color, for covereage, especially if its semigloss over semigloss, but using a primer is silly, as its not gonna cover as good, and dont try to tell me 123 covers better than white paint, cuz it doesnt.I do tinted primers sometimes if a garage is spec'd as a prime + 1 coat for example. I can usually color match pretty close with minimal effort.
Going over certain reds, yellows, oranges.. gold/biege. Will also do a tinted primer. Takes no time at all to dispense a quart formula into a primer.
That makes no sense at all to me. There is ZERO reason to use a primer over reds, and yellows, and whatnot, unless theres some adhesion concern or something, obviously. Those colors ore problematic to apply, not cover over. Sometimes you could use the flat version of that particular color, for covereage, especially if its semigloss over semigloss, but using a primer is silly, as its not gonna cover as good, and dont try to tell me 123 covers better than white paint, cuz it doesnt.
IDK painters ask for tinted primers all the time. I just did 20 gallons tinted 1/2 edgecomb grey 30min ago.
123 doesn't cover worth beans
In new construction I used tinted primers a lot as most jobs just paid for 2 coats [1 primer, 1 finish] With many reds it pays to apply a grey primer as it will cut down on the amount of coats needed to get full coverage.
Im not saying its a bad thing to use a tinted primer on new drywall, but I know for a fact its almost always unnecessary (Unless they are going for a single coat, like you and Mark said)IDK painters ask for tinted primers all the time. I just did 20 gallons tinted 1/2 edgecomb grey 30min ago.
123 doesn't cover worth beans
I will stand by my claim that using a primer over a previously painted wall for the sake of color change is silly. Unless of course, you are painting it a bright red or other ultradeep base color. But if you are painting an already bright red wall white, its just plain silly to think you need a primer. Go straight to your paint.
Im not saying its a bad thing to use a tinted primer on new drywall, but I know for a fact its almost always unnecessary (Unless they are going for a single coat, like you and Mark said)
I will stand by my claim that using a primer over a previously painted wall for the sake of color change is silly. Unless of course, you are painting it a bright red or other ultradeep base color. But if you are painting an already bright red wall white, its just plain silly to think you need a primer. Go straight to your paint.
Depends on the color. Cloud white for example won't cover over a red, caliente for example, like classic grey would. You'd end up needing 3 maybe 4 coats. 046 with a little white and grey tint to fill the can will definitely cover. I agree flat paints cover nicely too but its very difficult to convince a HO or pro for that matter to paint with flat first instead of primer.
End of the day doesn't matter to me if you use a primer coat or 3rd coat of paint.
You wouldnt find it easier just to give a third coat out of the same setup, rather than buy more material, and have twice as much cleanup, for something that may or may not even help matters???Depends on the color. Cloud white for example won't cover over a red, caliente for example, like classic grey would. You'd end up needing 3 maybe 4 coats. 046 with a little white and grey tint to fill the can will definitely cover. I agree flat paints cover nicely too but its very difficult to convince a HO or pro for that matter to paint with flat first instead of primer.
End of the day doesn't matter to me if you use a primer coat or 3rd coat of paint.
Also, give me some Duration, or maybe regal, and theres a good chance I'll get it done in two coats. Tint a primer, and your gauranteed to do three coats...
Maybe its just me... I try to be smarter than the paint. I've noticed that the average painter isnt very bright. And half of them are dumber than that. They just want the primer, cuz thats the way its always been, not cuz thats whats needed or not. Thats why if they are painting a bright red, they will usually tint the primer as pink as possible, rather than going for a gray base coat, which will work WAY better.
You wouldnt find it easier just to give a third coat out of the same setup, rather than buy more material, and have twice as much cleanup, for something that may or may not even help matters???
Also, give me some Duration, or maybe regal, and theres a good chance I'll get it done in two coats. Tint a primer, and your gauranteed to do three coats...
Maybe its just me... I try to be smarter than the paint. I've noticed that the average painter isnt very bright. And half of them are dumber than that. They just want the primer, cuz thats the way its always been, not cuz thats whats needed or not. Thats why if they are painting a bright red, they will usually tint the primer as pink as possible, rather than going for a gray base coat, which will work WAY better.
1) Totally agree some painters are dumb as a rocks and even the smart ones I often wonder about...
2) Whats easier to sell a customer on? 3 top coats or less expensive primer and 2 top coats. Primer just has the mouthfeel that people are more comfortable with. Plus I know it will stick and give some decent hold out for the subsequent top coats.
3) I said cloud white specifically because that color uses pigments that are basically translucent. Same with 'mayonnaise' and plenty others.
Interestingly BM recommeneds tinted primers under their reds/yellows then even make a special red/yellow primer tint base for aura. I usually just use grey it works nicely.
I definitely disagree with Gymschu on this one. I find that 3/8" covers hold plenty of paint. The problem as I see most often is that people simply don't know how to fully load it, and then on top of that try to cover too much wall area with one load. A fully loaded 3/8" cover should cover roughly 7 sf. Your mil thickness will then be about what the manufacturer suggests for the paint, and your coverage will be probably slightly less than specified (due to the fact that you can't put paint on the wall in a perfectly flat layer - the texture of the cover makes that impossible, so you have to go just slightly above on average.) Most people I've watched spread the paint way too thin. (This causes more than one problem.)
The problem with 1/2" or greater covers is that they leave more texture in the paint finish than some people like.
Gardz is fine as a primer (search on Jack Pauhl's blogs on the subject). Once you have Gardz on, using a PVA primer probably makes the situation worse, but in any case is unnecessary.
You use the word "coverage" but I assume you mean hiding, because you didn't actually talk about the coverage in your post. Coverage is not an issue in a bathroom because in most bathrooms you aren't going to run out of a gallon even with 2 coats.
My advice would be to stop watching DIY shows on TV where they go around painting Ws in the middle of walls and other nonsense, and find some resources that actually teach you how to paint correctly. Once you are painting correctly, then it's simply a matter of one coat or two. In most cases but not all it will take 2, but there are 1 coat situations and also 3-4 coat situations. If it is a typical 2 coat situation, then your "pale spots" issue is really a non-issue as the second coat will cover.
Personally I buy good quality roller cover and throw them out after use. I never buy the cheap ones as they cause way more trouble than a dollar or two is worth. It is silly to worry about $3-4 worth of roller cover when you just spend $35 on paint, not to mention all your time. Part of your problem could be due to poorly beveled cover edges. If it's going to take multiple coats, or I'll be painting more later, I simply wrap the cover in Saran wrap and stick it, and the try (also covered) in the refrigerator if it's going to be more than a few hours. It will keep for days.
The problem with 1/2" or greater covers is that they leave more texture in the paint finish than some people like.
Gardz is fine as a primer (search on Jack Pauhl's blogs on the subject). Once you have Gardz on, using a PVA primer probably makes the situation worse, but in any case is unnecessary.
You use the word "coverage" but I assume you mean hiding, because you didn't actually talk about the coverage in your post. Coverage is not an issue in a bathroom because in most bathrooms you aren't going to run out of a gallon even with 2 coats.
My advice would be to stop watching DIY shows on TV where they go around painting Ws in the middle of walls and other nonsense, and find some resources that actually teach you how to paint correctly. Once you are painting correctly, then it's simply a matter of one coat or two. In most cases but not all it will take 2, but there are 1 coat situations and also 3-4 coat situations. If it is a typical 2 coat situation, then your "pale spots" issue is really a non-issue as the second coat will cover.
Personally I buy good quality roller cover and throw them out after use. I never buy the cheap ones as they cause way more trouble than a dollar or two is worth. It is silly to worry about $3-4 worth of roller cover when you just spend $35 on paint, not to mention all your time. Part of your problem could be due to poorly beveled cover edges. If it's going to take multiple coats, or I'll be painting more later, I simply wrap the cover in Saran wrap and stick it, and the try (also covered) in the refrigerator if it's going to be more than a few hours. It will keep for days.
The problem with 1/2" or greater covers is that they leave more texture in the paint finish than some people like
I doubt most folks would notice the slight increase in roller stipple. I almost always use a 1/2" cover on walls - it's quicker/easier. I normally wash my covers after use but I usually use lambswool covers [I'm old school] never cared for the synthetic covers.
While I can see using Gardz for a primer on new drywall applying a PVA primer over it makes no sense to me.
I doubt most folks would notice the slight increase in roller stipple. I almost always use a 1/2" cover on walls - it's quicker/easier. I normally wash my covers after use but I usually use lambswool covers [I'm old school] never cared for the synthetic covers.
While I can see using Gardz for a primer on new drywall applying a PVA primer over it makes no sense to me.
3/8" covers simply don't bring enough product to the wall.
Quality paints and quality 1/2" nap cover will lay down very smooth.
I doubt most folks would notice the slight increase in roller stipple.
Well I didn't say most people, I said some people. Are you saying I'm just making it up?
No, but I've never had a customer say anything to me about roller stipple caused by my painting with a 1/2" nap ..... and I've had some extra picky customers from time to time.Well I didn't say most people, I said some people. Are you saying I'm just making it up?
@jeffnc, I say this all the time on here. Whatever works best for you is what you should do. There's room for all kinds of differing opinions, especially in the paint world. I wish I could get more out of a 3/8" nap roller sleeve, but, for whatever reasons I can't. I end up with missed areas and the frustration of having to continually dip the sleeve into a roller pan or bucket is not worth the minimal difference in roller stipple. I used 3/8" for a few years as it was the paint standard until an older painter suggested a 1/2". What a difference in made, especially in production! Truth be told, I rarely get any kind of stipple. I mean, I can honestly say that in the years of doing this, maybe 1 or 2 picky customers said anything and that was likely on a cabinet job.
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