[pwcopy]

Happy New Year everybody. The main breaker on my 200A service popped about 20 minutes ago. That's never happened before. Here's some info:

>The breaker was warm (not anywhere near hot) when I reset it.
> Not windy, which drops tree branches in our neighborhood, often taking out power.
> House built in 2000. Service line runs underground from pole behind my house.
> Power has been unstable in my house recently. Sometimes everything goes off/on quickly. Other times the lights flicker. Put in a call to the utility. They said they'd get to it when they can. It's been at least 3 weeks. I'll call again this week.
> Had a new tankless water heater professionally installed 2 weeks ago. The 3A electronic ignition required putting in a 120V recep. The installer tapped a circuit that powers an unused bedroom. Other than occasionally turning on the ceiling light in that room, it uses no power.

Wha' happened? Many thanks for your help, PW

 

[Let it Snow]

Happy New Year everybody. The main breaker on my 200A service popped about 20 minutes ago. That's never happened before. Here's some info:

>The breaker was warm (not anywhere near hot) when I reset it.
> Not windy, which drops tree branches in our neighborhood, often taking out power.
> House built in 2000. Service line runs underground from pole behind my house.
> Power has been unstable in my house recently. Sometimes everything goes off/on quickly. Other times the lights flicker. Put in a call to the utility. They said they'd get to it when they can. It's been at least 3 weeks. I'll call again this week.
> Had a new tankless water heater professionally installed 2 weeks ago. The 3A electronic ignition required putting in a 120V recep. The installer tapped a circuit that powers an unused bedroom. Other than occasionally turning on the ceiling light in that room, it uses no power.

Wha' happened? Many thanks for your help, PW

Call the Power Company NOW. Tell them you have an electrical emergency.

 

[de-nagorg]

Is your main a GFCI breaker?

There might have been a surge that occurred and it's sensitive nature, it tripped.

Other causes if not GFCI, is something in the home has changed, mouse chewed wire in attic, or other frayed wire, or any of several other things.



ED

 

[zhawkeye]

Not a lot to go on...if the description of the breaker has the term "thermal" in it, it has to heat up to trip. You mentioned it was warm...It'll likely be warmer inside the breaker. This may have lowered the trip point. Ultimately, you'll really want to find out from the power company whether you have a serious problem in the house or not...

 

[CodeMatters]

What was running? Stove? Dryer? Electric heat? Hot tub?

 

[pwcopy]

What was running? Stove? Dryer? Electric heat? Hot tub?

Dryer. Stereo. A few lights. If you turned on everything in the house, it wouldn't get near 200A.

 

[pwcopy]

Call the Power Company NOW. Tell them you have an electrical emergency.

Uh, I'll need a little more to go on than that...

 

[chandler48]

What did the POCO say when you declared your emergency? Call their emergency number, not their business number. Your time is ticking.

 

[CodeMatters]

Call the Power Company NOW. Tell them you have an electrical emergency.

Huh? How do you get that?

 

[CodeMatters]

Lot of confusion above. Breakers don't trip due to line side (ie utility)
problems. They trip due to load side problems or, very occasionally, an
internal problem with the breaker itself.
I'd start by checking currents with a clamping meter.

 

[pwcopy]

Just checked the main breaker, which is completely cool to the touch. It has a yellow sticker with a black stair on it, and the phrase "22,000 AIR". Nothing about GFCI. Also checked the junction box and receptacle for the new water heater. Nothing warm or unusual there. Unfortunately, I don't have a clamping meter.

If somebody will give me some good reasons WHY I should call the power company, I'll do so.

Thank u, PW

 

[CodeMatters]

I've never seen a GFI main breaker.......not sure they exist in
residential....

 

[chandler48]

Calling the POCO is something I would do in the event there IS something wrong, like overcurrent or voltage from the supply side. Just a precaution. Hopefully the OP can locate whatever it is overloading the panel from his side. Transformers can act funny, then straighten up and fly right.

 

[surferdude2]

I suspect you have a poor connection between the main breaker and the bus bars or at the lugs. That's on your side not the POCO's so you need to have it looked at on your dime. Breakers don't normally overheat unless you are operating them near their maximum rating. It stands to reason that you aren't using 199 amps under normal circumstances.

 

[Missouri Bound]

Turn off all of your breakers and reset the main. Then start turning them on one at a time. Mains need a lot of load to trip. You could have a faulty breaker or an issue with the panel. When you said tankless water heater I thought that was the issue.
Apparently it's a gas fired unit so that wouldn't be much of an issue.
Do you notice any smell at the panel? Stick your nose up against the breakers and sniff.
(With the breaker cover in place, of course.) Feel all the breakers. Loose connections can create heat and make the breaker feel warm. Any construction in your area that would involve linemen work? Your power should be stable all of the time.
It won't hurt to have the POCO check it but breaker issues are usually on your side.
Is there a disconnect in the meter panel?

 

[That Guy]

Another thing, you said your power flickers?

thats brownout and spikes in short seccession. I would atleast call them again and give them a heads up.

Next, maybe call a local electrician.

main panel fires are NOT uncommon. Also, I would unplug any computers from the wall til this issue is resolved.

You could also have an issue like I had a cpl years ago, in my case my main 200A service comes in via 2 lines (overhead) and a tree wore the insulation and the 2nd line was 'dropping' Leading to some REALLY wierd power issues in my house.

Lights flickering, UPS's and line conditioners having a cow ect...

A temp fix me and the line man tapped into my shops power... but in your case, it could be something LIKE that.

Most homes even with all electric stuff, dont draw enough to pop the main.

remember, meter to pole > their problem
Meter > panel YOUR problem

 

[chandler48]

When the POCO guys come out and give their side a clean bill of health, a nice cup of hot coffee and a doughnut may smooth the road to have them check your main connections in your panel. Never hurts to try.

 

[Ultrarunner2017]

Although I wouldn't expect a breaker (except an AF or GFCI) to trip due to POCO issues, it is possible that a large surge would cause current to increase to the trip point. However, this is something you would be aware of. Lights would go much brighter, and some electronics may be damaged.


As was stated, a normal breaker is a thermal device. It makes no difference where the heat comes from, so long as the sensing element reaches the tripping temperature. This means that a bad connection at the breaker could cause enough heat to trip the breaker.



If you are going to call POCO to check out their wiring, I would have them pull the meter, so you can open up your panel and check all connections.

My best advice is to call a qualified electrician, and if you notice any unusual (burning or hot) smells, call the fire department!


One more thought: You don't have a sub-panel, do you?

 

[u3b3rg33k]

call an electrician. I have seen a loose main bus lug before. didn't trip the main but all kinds of flickery lights and with the cover off and lights out you could see a moving glow coming from the threads on that bus bar. panel is dead at that point and needs replacement.


that can cause enough heat to thermal trip the main, even though you're nowhere near the normal limits.

it's also a great use for a thermal camera - will show you hot spots without you having to stick your fingers anywhere near the danger zone.

 

[pwcopy]

Turn off all of your breakers and reset the main. Then start turning them on one at a time. Mains need a lot of load to trip. You could have a faulty breaker or an issue with the panel. When you said tankless water heater I thought that was the issue.
Apparently it's a gas fired unit so that wouldn't be much of an issue.
Do you notice any smell at the panel? Stick your nose up against the breakers and sniff.
(With the breaker cover in place, of course.) Feel all the breakers. Loose connections can create heat and make the breaker feel warm. Any construction in your area that would involve linemen work? Your power should be stable all of the time.
It won't hurt to have the POCO check it but breaker issues are usually on your side.
Is there a disconnect in the meter panel?

I did all the checks described above. No smells. No warm breakers. The only disconnect I'm aware of is the main breaker.

I called the POCO a few minutes ago, and they said, "We don't deal with anything in a breaker box. You need to call an electrician." Having never needed one before, I'm getting recommendations. I'll update the thread when I have more to share. Thanks again everybody.