[RetroActv]

Hi all,

I have a 8' bearing wall in my basement I want to open up as I work on finishing it. I had a structural engineer draw up plans. For the 12' opening, he indicated (3) 11 7/8 LVL beams.

There's a tradesman in our neighborhood that worked on the exact same model house as mine and did the same work. When I spoke with him about doing the work, he indicated three LVL manufacturers and one engineer indicated the LVLs wouldn't support the mid-span point load and recommended a steel beam on that house. That's what he went with.

I don't mean to question a PE's work, but the conversation introduced a slight bit of concern. I thought I'd try here to see if my concerns are misplaced and I should just go with what the engineer indicates or if I should reconsider and go with steel. The difference in cost is about $1k for T&M, but I'm willing to spend it if needed.



Attached are pictures showing the full wall, as well as the squash block where the point load transfers from the floor above. There is no snow load on this wall, according to the engineer (he looked in my attic).



Thanks for any thoughts you have.

 

[Nealtw]

If your PE wrote that out, hat comes with a guarantee or at least you can sue him for a problem for 30 years. Change anything and you lose that unless he changes it for you.



1. what is the load from above and how do you intend to deal with that when you remover the wall before you have the beam in.


2. were the original foundation plans checked for an expanded footing for the point load. If it was a serious load the footing may have been made bigger for it and you are moving the load to regular sized footings.

 

[RetroActv]

Thanks for the reply. I've attached a cut-and-paste of the plans I was provided by the engineer. I have drawings for the house, and there is an expanded footing where that point load currently transfers to the foundation (in that mid-span area). However, with the proposed beam, that footing will not be needed, according to the drawings.


I'm fine with moving forward with the drawings as is. I understand the PE is putting is name on the line with this. However, I just wanted a 2nd opinion based on the experience that was shared.


Thanks!

 

[Nealtw]

Thanks for the reply. I've attached a cut-and-paste of the plans I was provided by the engineer. I have drawings for the house, and there is an expanded footing where that point load currently transfers to the foundation (in that mid-span area). However, with the proposed beam, that footing will not be needed, according to the drawings.


I'm fine with moving forward with the drawings as is. I understand the PE is putting is name on the line with this. However, I just wanted a 2nd opinion based on the experience that was shared.


Thanks!

I would fallow that to the T. My only question is the point load up stairs, not bad if it is in a wall that spreads the load on the bottom plate to other joist, but if all the load will be on the sheeting , that could be a problem.

 

[Old Thomas]

Either LVL or steel can be used if designed properly. I would ask the engineer if a version of a wide flange steel beam would work while allowing for more headroom. It should be a question a licensed engineer can give a conceptual answer to without doing calculations.

 

[Spyder]

If you're concerned, call up the PE and ask them the qusetion saying your tradesperson just did another job and they called for steel saying that the LVLs were on the light side.

Not that I distrust the tradesman, but he's going by a 2nd hand conversation with a PE on a similar house. Where you had a PE look at your house and do the calcs.
I'm not sure who is right, but you can ask your guy, and can't ask the PE that worked on some other guys house.

 

[Nealtw]

Engineers are fully qualified to think it thru.

LVls come in man sized pieces that one man can install, Once in they are almost ready for drywall

Depending on the beam add some men for handling spend time to drill it to add lumber and tie it to the jacks or pay extra for that Then you have to box it in for drywall.

He could have added a third one if he was worried about it.

 

[3onthetree]

(3) LVLs are perfectly fine to use and easy to install. If you didn't like the 12" depth, then you could go to W shape steel to get maybe an 8" depth. But there's really no reason to introduce steel into a wood framed wall. And you know nothing about the spans that the other guy had, and why would he need to "talk" to 3(?) manufacturers of LVLs?

It looks like 8' ceilings, you might want to install it flush to subfloor to get some height. Those are really strange drawings, but whatever gets that permit.

Edit: nix that flush, just relooked at all the MPE in the ceiling.

 

[Yodaman]

However, I just wanted a 2nd opinion based on the experience that was shared.


Thanks!

If you really want another valid opinion, you really need to get it from another PE.


But in MHO, I would rather stick with the LVL and add depth or another layer to ease my mind in lieu of using steel.

 

[House Designer]

Even a PE can make mistakes occasionally. Tell your PE what came up and ask him if he can double-check his work. I welcome that kind of feedback myself, and will go back through my work anytime a question comes up. I usually repeat the analysis using a different method (such as tables and hand calc's, vs. computer program results) to make sure both answers are in agreement. The most important part is getting the initial conditions correct: i.e. floor loads, roof loads, wall loads, point loads all correctly accounted for.

 

[P C D]

If you think that the engineer who designed the beam might have made a mistake (known to happen), what you would check first is their calculations (look for that point load).

Even if the 3 lvls end up being undersized, a glulam beam is almost always a better alternative than a steel beam for residential construction.

 

[RetroActv]

Hi all,


Thanks for weighing in. I reached out to the PE today, and he added an addendum to the original that provides for an 8x18 steel beam. He did say the point load on the LVL would be fine. However, it's nice to have options.


I live in a DR Horton neighborhood with only about five different house designs (out of 160 total houses), so for what it's worth we're all pretty much the same, within inches for most measurements I bet.


I plan to add a subfloor (3/4 rigid foam, 3/4 T&G), so the extra 3" headroom with a steel beam might be nice.


Thanks for all your help!

 

[Old Thomas]

Is that beam a W8x18?

 

[RetroActv]

Yes, W8x18; 12’-3’’ max length is what was specified.

 

[Calson]

A steel beam does not require as much head room as a wood or engineered wood beam. Builders tend to work with wood and not even consider steel. Friends had a house they were remodeling and wanted to take out a column in the dining area and the builder told them that no beam could take the load with the span involved. I suggested they go with a steel beam and that was what they did.

In my area a change like this would have to be signed off by a structural engineer to get a permit for the work.

 

[RetroActv]

The plans were developed and signed off by a structural engineer. Both the original and the new plan have been stamped for the city permit.