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Discussion Starter #1
Hi! I am trying to determine if the wall in the photos with the copper pipes is load-bearing. I have attached photos of the roof supports directly above it. It looks like it is load-bearing to me, but I am no engineer.

What I want to do is move the wall showing the copper pipes and drain one floor joist over into the closet area (under the joist pointed to by the broom) to give me another 14" or so in the 6' X 6' bathroom adjoining the master bathroom on the second floor of our split level. I am wondering if this can be done by moving the roof supports over as well, or (even better, I suppose) adding new ones over where the new wall would be and leaving the other supports as they are. As you can see, this wall runs parallel to the ceiling joists, but perpendicular to the floor joists under it.

I will not attempt anything unless it complies with code as I want it to be safe.

Thanks for any replies!
 

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retired framer
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Is there a wall or beam directly under the wall you want to move.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)



Is there a wall or beam directly under the wall you want to move.
Neal: There is no wall directly under the wall I want to move. The next joist over, the one I want to center the new wall on, sits extremely close to the concrete block wall in the room beneath this bathroom, but not directly on it, either. If I needed to, I would move the wall just a few inches more and place it directly on top of this concrete block wall.
Let me try to clarify better. The joists under this wall sit on concrete block walls, one exterior, and one interior. But the wall itself just sits on the joists about 18" from this block wall, nothing directly under it.

If I need to, I will get more photos and post them.
 

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retired framer
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Neal: There is no wall directly under the wall I want to move. The next joist over, the one I want to center the new wall on, sits extremely close to the concrete block wall in the room beneath this bathroom, but not directly on it, either. If I needed to, I would move the wall just a few inches more and place it directly on top of this concrete block wall.
Let me try to clarify better. The joists under this wall sit on concrete block walls, one exterior, and one interior. But the wall itself just sits on the joists, nothing directly under it.

If I need to, I will get more photos and post them.
It is not a load bearing wall in the normal sense but there maybe some load on it anyway.
As there is only 6 ft between the walls that the joist is sitting on I don't think it is a big deal, but to be sure you could just run a 2x6 on edge across 4 or 5 joists and put blocks down the side of the joists so the load would spread over several.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It is not a load bearing wall in the normal sense but there maybe some load on it anyway.
As there is only 6 ft between the walls that the joist is sitting on I don't think it is a big deal, but to be sure you could just run a 2x6 on edge across 4 or 5 joists and put blocks down the side of the joists so the load would spread over several.
Thanks, Neal! Actually, would I have to use concrete blocks if there is a concrete block wall almost directly under where the new wall will be? I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't be causing trouble by moving the wall 14" over. If I have to, I will add new bracing, just like what's there, on top of the wall for the roof.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
It is not a load bearing wall in the normal sense but there maybe some load on it anyway.
As there is only 6 ft between the walls that the joist is sitting on I don't think it is a big deal, but to be sure you could just run a 2x6 on edge across 4 or 5 joists and put blocks down the side of the joists so the load would spread over several.
I understand their purpose, but don't understand what the blocks would sit on. Do you mean if I build the new wall directly on top of the cement block wall underneath the floor joists? Where do I place the 2" x 4" bottom wall plate in conjunction with the 2" x 6"?

Do I need to add new roof supports like what is there now over the new wall?

Thanks!
 

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I understand their purpose, but don't understand what the blocks would sit on. Do you mean if I build the new wall directly on top of the cement block wall underneath the floor joists? Where do I place the 2" x 4" bottom wall plate in conjunction with the 2" x 6"?

Do I need to add new roof supports like what is there now over the new wall?

Thanks!
Sorry, I didn't make it clear.this is just to tie the ceiling joists together to spread the load up there.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Sorry, I didn't make it clear.this is just to tie the ceiling joists together to spread the load up there.
So if I understand this correctly, the brown pieces in the diagram are the joists in the attic, with the yellow piece being the 2 x 6" laid on its edge. Are the orange pieces wooden blocking? And are they all held together with construction screws?

Since the joists in the attic are parallel with the wall I am moving, I would be moving it from beneath the joist to the far left in the diagram to directly under the next joist to the right. I can do the work, it's just that I wish I knew just a little more about proper framing. :)

By the way, the attic joists are either 2 x 10 or 2 x 12.
 

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So if I understand this correctly, the brown pieces in the diagram are the joists in the attic, with the yellow piece being the 2 x 6" laid on its edge. Are the orange pieces wooden blocking? And are they all held together with construction screws?

Since the joists in the attic are parallel with the wall I am moving, I would be moving it from beneath the joist to the far left in the diagram to directly under the next joist to the right. I can do the work, it's just that I wish I knew just a little more about proper framing. :)
You could likely do nothing and it would be OK. This is just a little over kill. It is called a strong back and i guess if you do it right it would be proper framing. :biggrin2:
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I will install the new stud wall before removing the other. I see what a strong back is via YouTube videos. Just a 2 x 4 nailed across the ceiling joists and the 2 x 6 on edge nailed to the 2 x 4. Where would the strong back be placed? Snugged up next to the rigid roof braces shown in the pictures?

Looking at the diagram again, it looks like you place a 2 x 6 on edge across several of the ceiling joists and then install blocking to the joists and screw this blocking to the 2 x 6 so the 2 x 6 adds rigidity to the ceiling joists.

Do I need to place another roof brace like the one shown (truss?) in the photos on top of the new wall?
 

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I will install the new stud wall before removing the other. I see what a strong back is via YouTube videos. Just a 2 x 4 nailed across the ceiling joists and the 2 x 6 on edge nailed to the 2 x 4. Where would the strong back be placed? Snugged up next to the rigid roof braces shown in the pictures?

Do I need to place another roof brace like the one shown (truss?) in the photos on top of the new wall?
The blocks nailed or screwed don the side of the joist makes it way stronger than the one you see in videos. With the blocks you are using the sheer of the nails or screws. with the flat 2x4 you are hoping nails just don't pull straight out when the joist bends down. :wink2:
Yes put it close to the braces, you don't need another. If the braces go right down to the wall you are removing just push them over and nail them to the nearest joist.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
From what I saw the upright brace in the photos attaches only to the joist in the attic. The upper plate of the wall I want to move straddles the aforementioned joist, which made me think it was a load bearing wall, but the lower plate of the wall sits only on the floor joists of the bathroom, about 18 inches from the cement block wall supporting the middle of the house.

The supports for the second floor are the exterior cement block walls (house was built in 1963; split level) the interior block wall I am describing here, and two steel poles. So new wall will rest on the joists, almost directly above the aforementioned interior block wall.

One thing I didn't consider is whether to make the new wall 2 x 6 because I may put a 48" shower in there and use the new wall as a wet wall.
 

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retired framer
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From what I saw the upright brace in the photos attaches only to the joist in the attic. The upper plate of the wall I want to move straddles the aforementioned joist, which made me think it was a load bearing wall, but the lower plate of the wall sits only on the floor joists of the bathroom, about 18 inches from the cement block wall supporting the middle of the house.

The supports for the second floor are the exterior cement block walls (house was built in 1963; split level) the interior block wall I am describing here, and two steel poles. So new wall will rest on the joists, almost directly above the aforementioned interior block wall.

One thing I didn't consider is whether to make the new wall 2 x 6 because I may put a 48" shower in there and use the new wall as a wet wall.
You would like 2x6 when you are putting in the big vent pipe like 3" or bigger. Usually anything else fits in a 2x4 wall.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I will try to send photos of the work as it progresses. I was at the limit with photos, but maybe I can edit the original post and put new pictures in their place.
 

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I will try to send photos of the work as it progresses. I was at the limit with photos, but maybe I can edit the original post and put new pictures in their place.
That limit is per post, so you should be fine. :wink2:
 

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Any snow load?

I have seen center "ridge" support posts like that in cabins up here. Inspector uncle said that the two angled boards going into the post were to support roof load.
 
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