[Homestead31]

hi all - i am trying to paint a 4 panel anderson glass patio door set up with the grill inserts that make it look like it is a bunch of small panes rather than one big pane. there is also a 4 piece molding around the doors, and the wood was stained a medium brown, and there was an unknown varnish of shellac on it. the goal is to paint white. given that there are some intricate spots with the molding and the grill, i elected to use Klean strip sander deglosser before painting with behr premium plus ultra primer and paint in one.

this was my first time with the liquid sandpaper, and i'm not sure if it worked. after applying i did the "squeak test" with my finger and thought i was good to go. however, after doing 2 coats of paint, you can still easily see the stained wood through the paint, and more concerning, when i was caulking a spot this morning the caulk nozzle went through 2 coats of paint down to the bare stained wood in one spot.

if all i need is more coats of paint, thats fine, but given that this is slow going with a small hand brush, i don't want to keep putting on coats of paint if the base coat isn't bonded to the wood b/c the liquid sandpaper didn't cut through the unknown varnish/shellac.

any thoughts here?

should i just keep painting? should i hand sand through the new paint and down to the wood (that would take FOREVER) should i use the liquid sand paper again? should i try a coat of pure primer rather than paint/primer in one?

any thoughts appreciated.

 

[MaineLL]

I would have used a bonding primer before the paint. I like Behr paint, but I do still prime in many situations. Paint and primer are okay for some situations, but this is a specialty situation.

For quicker removal I would tend to use a liquid stripper, as opposed to the liquid sanding.

 

[Homestead31]

thanks Maine. I have more casings to do, and i will be using a pure primer first on the next projects...

but i'm trying to decide what to do with the doors that already have a coat or 2 of paint/primer in one on them.

any thoughts anyone?

 

[Jmayspaint]

It's possible, though unlikely, that the paint you applied will form a good bond to the door after it cures.

Standard practice for painting over existing oil based (presumably) clear coats is to prep the surface and use a bonding primer. There are some specialty paints that can perform well without a primer in this situation, but the Behr P&P isn't one of them.

That said, even if it doesn't bond it's not likely to just fall off the door. It'll probably just chip off from wear in the high contact areas like around the knob. Any pro painter has seen this numerous times.

Some practical advice might be to wait a couple days and try to scratch the paint off with your fingernail, or perhaps a coin. If your unable to do so its probably bonded and your fine.

If it does scratch off, then it's time to decide if you want to go the trouble to strip it and start over or continue on and touch up the door as needed. Depending on the exposure and use the door gets it may last quite a while before it starts chipping/peeling off.




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[ToolSeeker]

It's possible, though unlikely, that the paint you applied will form a good bond to the door after it cures.

Standard practice for painting over existing oil based (presumably) clear coats is to prep the surface and use a bonding primer. There are some specialty paints that can perform well without a primer in this situation, but the Behr P&P isn't one of them.

That said, even if it doesn't bond it's not likely to just fall off the door. It'll probably just chip off from wear in the high contact areas like around the knob. Any pro painter has seen this numerous times.

Some practical advice might be to wait a couple days and try to scratch the paint off with your fingernail, or perhaps a coin. If your unable to do so its probably bonded and your fine.

If it does scratch off, then it's time to decide if you want to go the trouble to strip it and start over or continue on and touch up the door as needed. Depending on the exposure and use the door gets it may last quite a while before it starts chipping/peeling off.




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Kinda doubtful.

 

[Homestead31]

ok - i guess at this point the best move is to continue on as it seems that in some areas the liquid sand paper workd and the paint bonded. as it chips in other areas going forward, i suppose i will sand that area and then re-paint. these doors are not super high traffic so i'm hopeful they'll be ok.

however, i have some floor moldings that are in a super high traffic hallway that i'd like to do right from the get go.

any suggestions on the best bonding primer? any suggestions on the best way to prep the wood? a liquid stripper vs liquid sandpaper? or just plain old sandpaper as these moldings aren't intricate? what number paper?

thanks again for your thoughts

 

[ToolSeeker]

I think the best advice would be take your liquid sandpaper to the nearest disposal site an donate it. Get a sanding sponge all you need to do is scratch up the surface a little. Use Zinsser 123 primer. Grit on the sponge or paper should be 180 or 220 your not sanding them bare. And use a real paint.

If the paint on your first project is not bonded it will just keep coming off. Sand off what is loose use a primer then re-paint.

 

[Homestead31]

thanks toolseeker.

would you mind explaining what you mean by a "real paint."

 

[Jmayspaint]

thanks toolseeker.

would you mind explaining what you mean by a "real paint."

Behr is not highly regarded in some parts of the pro community.

But aside from that, what he might have been getting at is the frustration that many of us (pros) have towards these paint&primer products. Or rather the misleading advertising of them.

This case is a classic example of the problems that arise from thinking the phrase 'paint&primer means more than it means. Even the manufacturers don't claim that these products can replace primers on difficult to stick substrates such as your door. But they don't plainly advertise these limitations.

It's perfectly reasonable for an average person to conclude that a so called paint&primer would include such a function. One has to look closely at the product specifications, not usually provided to consumers at purchase, to realize it's not made for that at all.

The problems this creates, like the one you're seeing, have led to a backlash in the pro community against this arguably misleading phrase. The result has been that some manufacturers that cater to professionals more so than DIY'ers have minimized or
dropped this phrase all together.

For example, Ben Moores Aura paint line is no longer advertised as a paint&primer product even though it arguably comes closest to actually performing as such in a variety of situations.


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