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retired framer
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Hi everyone

Looking to started a new deck build but I have a question regarding ledger boards. The one which was installed by our builder is only nailed in. Would I need to remove this and replace it with a new one if I wanted to use lag bolts or could I use lag bolts on the existing ledger board? Would I need to remove the existing nails if I was to use the existing ledger board?

Thanks
We need pictures. Where is it in relation to the door? did they remove siding?
 

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retired framer
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Pictures above looks like siding has been removed
Not much wrong with that, if you have a rim joist behind that you could just add lag bolts.
Do the lay out first so you don't put lag bolts where you want the joists.
 

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retired framer
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Hi guys another question related to the ledger board. I decided I want to go 12' against the house but the ledger is 10' what do I need to do to get the extra 2'? Do I attach a longer ledger board that extends off the house and does it need to be supported?
It might depend on the load you are going to attach out at the end , do a sketch of the deck with the floor joists so we can see what you have in mind.
 

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retired framer
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Sorry if this drawing is very amateur please let me know if I've messed anything up.
I was planning on running 2x10x16 3ply beams for the beams which would be max length.
I'm not too sure how I should space the posts. The posts don't need to be located underneath a joist correct?
Right now my spacing that I drew isn't very consistent.
I'm not sure also what to do with the 10' ledger board do I just extend it 2' off the house or would I need a post for that extra 2'?
As well, I'm not sure what to do with J11 as it will be where the 2' ledger board is. Should I move it over to the right and mess up my spacing a bit?
I'm also not too sure if I need that 2nd beam but the deck is 14' long so I was assuming I'd need it.

TIA
I made some changes for you and assumed 2x10 joists.
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retired framer
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Thank you for this I have some questions below:

For the double ledger how do I attach this? I'm trying to find a youtube video but I can't seem to find one with a double ledger.
What does the "Extend Ledger 2"" mean? Does this mean to extend the 4' ledger so it touches the deck? Also how should I connect that joist to the 4' ledger?
For the 2 beams can I just connect those using a beam connector on the middle footing? As well, does my 1' beam cantilever work here and then just place the last footer in the middle of the other 2 footers?

Thanks a tonne!
Yes the double ledger, nail one up and then another and bolt them just like a single with longer bolts.
Yes the joist is attached to the end of the ledger with nails thru the joist into the ledger and a corner bracket inside corner.
1 ft cantilever for the ends of the beams is fine and 3" bearing each on the center post is fine.
with the joist 2 ft cantilever the span will be 14 feet 12" on center 2x10s would be enough for a kitchen so plenty for a deck.
 

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retired framer
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63,236 Posts
If you replace the siding on the 2 ft wall, I would do the double ledger first a little short so you can do all the flashing on that and down the end of it ans still have roof to put the inside corner down for the siding. So that 2" should be fine for that. That will be different hanger for the joist 2" way,
The one on the right as the nails inside so you can use it right at the end of the ledger, there are a few places you can use those, at the corners.
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Normally we do 16"OC, why are you going for 12?
 

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retired framer
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Oops I was initially doing 16" OC because my joist span was going to be 14' with a 2' cantilever since it's changed to a 12' with a 2' cantilever I can now use 16" OC so I will change that and redraw the sketch. I think I understand everything else you mentioned I will redraw my plans and post again sorry if this is very tedious.

I thank you so much for the time you have taken to help me. I am going to write down my full build and complete all my permit documents and then I will probably post again with my full build along with all materials just to ensure that I'm doing everything properly.

Thanks!!
If you are thinking perimeter board, that is early in the planning too.
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retired framer
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I was just looking in to fasteners for the deck should I be using screws for everything?
Most home owners build it all with screws, but best to ask inspectors if you are getting a permit and a permit is a suggestion.
I was not suggesting the perimeter, just that if that is a thought, the planning for it is before you build not after the frame is up.
Yes you would have the beam at 14 ft and you would use 16 ft joists, anything less and you would need another beam ..
We always add a second joist around the perimeter after everything is built but 2" bigger it makes things easier for adding stairs and a skirt below the deck
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We take some off the bottom corner of the beam so it is less visible from the outside.
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We like to lower the ledger against the house so we don't trap water, best it to just lower it 3/4"
And in line with the joist just a piece of 1x2.
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So if you plan for this stuff like the extra 2x12 you might adjust measurements so the final wrap is 16 or you end up buying those 2 ft longer for little benefit.
 

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retired framer
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Awesome thanks.

At the moment weren't planning on skirting because we wanted to store small things under the deck but if we do skirting in the future having that extra 2x12 would be good.
Is the 2x12 attached to the ledger or is it just screwed into the 2x10 that it's against?

I don't completely understand the ledger what is the grey block the rim joist? So pretty much just move my double ledger down 3/4" enough to fit a 1x2?

I have attached 2 images below and have some further questions.

For the image below I used the purple line to highlight where the extra 2x12's should be attached is this correct?
As well, the dark shading is where I'm going to add blocking and another joist beside the blocking is this enough for perimeter board? Some sites also say to add another joist beside that joist so essentially a double joist to help with the blocking. On J9 those small scribbles aren't blocking I just wanted to cross them out so you can ignore those but I do have blocking near the top. All blocking is 16" OC.

View attachment 697436

For the image below I am worried about doing the layout correctly my plan is currently to remove all the sod from the area and then do the following as outlined:

1 & 2: Stake corner of house perpendicular with string line and ensure line is level. Then use 3,4,5 rule to make sure string is perpendicular and straight from the house.
3: Batter board 3' in to where the posts need to be placed taking into account cantilever use 3,4,5 to ensure straight and perpendicular again.
4. Use 3,4,5 to ensure straight still.
Finally line to wall and ensure we are all straight with 3,4,5.
Then I will mark the 3 post holes does this sound all correct?

View attachment 697437

Thank you for the help!
The 2x12 would wrap the 2 ft return to the house at and would hide the fact that the double ledger is lower.
Top left corner
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What are the black marks between the joists on this picture?
 

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retired framer
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checking for square is nice if you assume the house is square . I would go with sight lines first and then check that for square.
Put a batter board up beside the house and nail a 2x4 to the ledger you have now.
Measure from the house 2 ft on both .
Pull a string to the third and let that dictate the side of the deck.
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And for digging holes for piers.
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retired framer
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Full length stairs are nice but you have to cut a lot of stringers all identical and you would like them to land on concrete.
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retired framer
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Okay thanks your way looks a lot easier and more accurate.
I'll think of the stairs later haha.

I've looked around but I wasn't able to find a definitive answer I'm located in Calgary, AB do my footings need 6" of gravel at the bottom under the tubing or can I just put the tubing in my 4' holes without the gravel. Not too sure here.

I just wanted to run a perimeter board around but still not too sure how I need to set up my layout for this

Thanks!
Do you mean for removing sod?
 

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retired framer
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63,236 Posts
I would start by deciding the very outside measurement of the deck.
Then you need measurements of the decking to figure the blocks you need for the perimeter.
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Then you can subtract 1 1/2" for the 2x12 all around the outside and you have the measurement for the frame with 2x10 ledgers and rims. and you will have some joist that have a place to be.

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Then with out the 2x12 you layout and build the deck.
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retired framer
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Sorry I'm unsure as to what these drawings are for could you explain?

In the other message I was referring to my cement footings. I've read in some places that I need to add grave to the bottom in the 4' holes before putting the cement pile whereas in other places people just put the cement pile straight into the 4' hole with no gravel.

Sorry if I'm super tedious I just don't have much experience and want to have this all planned out 100% so I don't fail miserably. I'm planning on using Trex composite decking 1x6.
I have attached another drawing I have some questions.

For joist spacing 16" OC joist 8 and joist 10 are 16" OC while joist 11 is just added is this correct to keep the spacing uniform from the first joist?
As well, considering the Trex decking the width is 5.5" so I have 1" overhang meaning I have 4.5" to work with then subtract the 2x12 and the 2x10 to have 1.5" of boarding required for the perimeter board. Considering this could I just place another joist there or is it better to do 1.5" blocking followed by a joist? I haven't added the blocking to this drawing yet.

View attachment 697501
You want the bottom of the concrete to be sitting on solid undisturbed soil, when you are digging 4 ft deep it is hard to scrap out and loose that you have made or you may find water and make mud. So when in doubt about the bottom of the hole dirt, you put a little stone down there and pound it into the dirt as best you can with a post or 2x4 just to make it hard and a good base. Most people do a 2 board boarder because the framing for one is a little goofy.
So the spacer to the first joist with a single boarder is just 1 1/2"
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Usually you would do the lay out for the boarders first.
You know you need one at the 2ft bump out .
I would just start at the bump out and stop when you can't make another 16"
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retired framer
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Ah so to be clear what I should do is a double picture frame border meaning I'd have 7" of spacing for blocking?
As well, am I correct that the width of composite decking is 5.5"?
For the image you attached the newest one don't I need to add blocking in the corner for the border and would that blocking need to go all the way down?
As well for the blocking spacing is it still 16 OC or do I need 12 OC for the blocking?
Also for flashing tape if I'm flashing 2x10's how wide of flashing tape should I use? 12" or do I want something even wider?

View attachment 697557


Thanks,
How many boards are for the border one board or 2 boards.
Are you sure you want it in this corner, it changes a bunch of stuff?
 

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retired framer
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Oops! For some reason I was thinking the perimeter board would go around the entire deck but now I understand it's just the outside perimeter.
I have attached a drawing for the 2 board perimeter does this look accurate? The boards are 7" in width with 16" oc spacing.
View attachment 697578

I'm also trying to draw the perimeter board but at the top left corner I'm not sure how that will look with the 2nd board. The second board would run onto the house or am I visualizing this wrong?
View attachment 697594

Dangit I also just realized that my right side ends in the middle of my big window any suggestions as to what I should do or is it fine to end in between the window.
Also not sure if I ever mentioned but my deck will be about 30" high if that changes anything.



Since I'm beginning the ledger board replacement you mentioned here to move the ledger down 3/4" so move it down 3/4" on my house is what this means?
I will be using vinyl z flashing above the ledger board along with flashing tape under the ledger and on top of the vinyl flashing but do I also need vinyl flashing at the bottom of the ledger?

Another question how exactly do I go about flashing a double ledger? I see information for a single ledger but nothing for a double ledger.

Thanks,
Yes I think 7" works .
Now when you drew out the 16" on center you ended up with an extra close to the outside edges.
Remember that 16" is max and anything less is better.
If you have a space like 40' you would have a joist at 16 and 32, but you could back up and change that layout to 13"
and have joists at 13, 26, and 40 for the same money and a better frame. When you are not doing plywood you have more freedom with the lay out.
But yes the picture looks like you have a handle on it.
And blocks for the boarder can be at 16" on center.
 
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