LED installation gone wrong

1627 Views 9 Replies 3 Participants Last post by mpoulton, Dec 23, 2012

Flawed

Discussion Starter · Dec 20, 2012

So I installed one LED light in the middle of my bedroom ceiling wall. No problem. It only had three wires. (Black, White, and Copper). Very quick and easy installation.

Now I took out the old ball light in my closet (Which is next to bathroom. Two closest on side, then door leading to bathroom. It's more like a little hallway to be exact.).

Once I took it out I noticed that it was probably going to give me a **** ton of trouble as there where 3 sets of 3 wires (Black, White, and Copper) for a total of nine wires. So after seeing that I decided the best thing for me to do was label all the wires so I don't have to mess around with it. And I did so.

Now before I put the LED in, I connected all the wires the way they where and connected the two remaining wires that would be connected to the lamp, to each other to see if it would complete a circuit.

Just my luck, the breaker pops back down everytime I flip the switch with the old combination.

Here's some info on each outlet.

1. This one is controlled by the switch. Somehow this wirebunch is also connected to the bedroom LED I installed earlier. I am guessing there are connected together. The bedroom LED does not work if this switch doesn't have a circuit. When I connect this one to the power wirebunch (B to B, W to W) it shuts the breaker down when flipped on. This one is currently has both black and white wires cut off (insulated).

2. I assume this is the power outlet. Without this one neither of the other two do anything. When connected to the bathroom wirebunch. All the outlets and lights work except for the bedroom ceiling LED. When connected to the switch directly it short circuits (i guess thats what its called?) and flips the breaker.

3. Bathroom wirebunch. Controls all the lights in the bathroom. When not connected to power the bathroom is left powerless.

Currently I have the Bathroom wires connect to the power, and the switch isolated. In order for me to have light in the bathroom until I figure out what to do. The problem is that without the other wires connected to the switch, the ceiling light in my bedroom and closet don't work!

Help please!

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Flawed

Discussion Starter · #2 · Dec 20, 2012

This is the setup I labeled and it should be the right one but it flips the breaker.

1-switch (switch leg only)
2-power in
3-bathroom (power out)

White's from #2 and #3 go together. Then add an extension that will lead to the LED light.

Blacks from #2 and #3 go together. Then also connect white from #1.

Black from #1 goes directly to lamp.

Ground wires all go together.

However when ever I connect the two that are suppose to go to the lamp the breaker flips. Also there is a residue left behind in the black and white which goes to the lamp like it burned. So i am afraid to connect it to LED light until I get a complete circuit flowing.

What am I doing wrong?

I am afraid of putting the LED in and risk breaking it until I get a full circuit around the room without it. But is it required to complete the circuit? (I assumed not?)

Or is there something else that is causing the breaker to pop??

Here is a pic

http://i.imgur.com/lcxS3.jpg

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mpoulton

· #3 · Dec 20, 2012

I'm very confused about what you're actually doing here. The photo looks fine. It's pretty clear that you have power coming into the box from one cable, leaving the box through another cable to continue the circuit, and a switch leg that controls the light that should be installed on this box. Your new light connects exactly the same way as the old light did - to the black and white wires sticking down in the photo. Does it not work when you do that?

I am afraid of putting the LED in and risk breaking it until I get a full circuit around the room without it. But is it required to complete the circuit? (I assumed not?)

I have no idea what this means. You're just replacing a light fixture - so replace the light fixture.

However when ever I connect the two that are suppose to go to the lamp the breaker flips. Also there is a residue left behind in the black and white which goes to the lamp like it burned. So i am afraid to connect it to LED light until I get a complete circuit flowing.

Are you describing connecting the black and white wires for the fixture to EACH OTHER??? If so, that's obviously the problem. That's a dead short. Why would you do that?

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Dave632

· #4 · Dec 20, 2012

Flawed said:
...
However when ever I connect the two that are suppose to go to the lamp the breaker flips. Also there is a residue left behind in the black and white which goes to the lamp like it burned. So i am afraid to connect it to LED light until I get a complete circuit flowing.

What am I doing wrong?

...
Here is a pic

http://i.imgur.com/lcxS3.jpg

You are connecting the black with the white overspray directly to the white white that comes from the wire nut with the other white wires? In other words, you connect those two stripped ends at the bottom center of the picture to each other? Does this (tripping the breaker) happen only when the switch is in the ON position, and not when the switch is OFF?

If so, what you're doing is creating a direct short from the (switched) hot to neutral. And the breaker trips, as it should, whenever the switch is ON.

To work properly, you need some kind of load (resistance) between the black and the white. To protect your LED, you might temporarily put in a normal fixture with an incandescent lightbulb. Wire the black to one of the terminals of the light socket and the white to the other. If that works without shorting, remove the light and socket and replace with your LED socket.

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Flawed

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 21, 2012

Dave632 said:
You are connecting the black with the white overspray directly to the white white that comes from the wire nut with the other white wires? In other words, you connect those two stripped ends at the bottom center of the picture to each other? Does this (tripping the breaker) happen only when the switch is in the ON position, and not when the switch is OFF?

If so, what you're doing is creating a direct short from the (switched) hot to neutral. And the breaker trips, as it should, whenever the switch is ON.

To work properly, you need some kind of load (resistance) between the black and the white. To protect your LED, you might temporarily put in a normal fixture with an incandescent lightbulb. Wire the black to one of the terminals of the light socket and the white to the other. If that works without shorting, remove the light and socket and replace with your LED socket.

When I took out the original setup. Those black and white wires coming down from the ceiling (that should be connected to the lamp/LED were different from the wires I used right now. They were wires but ones with a bunch of tiny string like wires instead of just one thick one. I thought who ever did the old lamp install just didnt have the right wires so he used those and I threw them out and replaced it with the thick normal wire.

Do you think this could have been that resister your talking about? Or is it nothing?

If so what's that wire called so I can go out and get some?

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Flawed

Discussion Starter · #6 · Dec 21, 2012

By the way, thank you for all the replies and suggestions guys.

I tried installing the fixture for the light (without the actual light).

http://i.imgur.com/GYlY0.jpg

The breaker still flipped.

Does the actual LED need to be put into the Edison socket? Does that make a difference? I'm a very careful person when it comes to things I am not 100% sure on lol.

Wanted to see if would flip the breaker with fixture installed first. Then if it didn't flip the breaker I would install the LED part. But it flipped the breaker with the fixture.

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Dave632

· #7 · Dec 21, 2012

Flawed said:
When I took out the original setup. Those black and white wires coming down from the ceiling (that should be connected to the lamp/LED were different from the wires I used right now. They were wires but ones with a bunch of tiny string like wires instead of just one thick one. I thought who ever did the old lamp install just didnt have the right wires so he used those and I threw them out and replaced it with the thick normal wire.

There are two basic ways that the actual copper wire can be made: solid and stranded. Solid means that there's a single, relatively thick wire surrounded by the insulation. Stranded wire uses a number of thinner wires twisted together, with approximately the same overall diameter.

Since the individual wires are thinner, stranded wire is more flexible than solid wire of the same size. But they can be used interchangeably.

Unless you accidentally left one of the strands outside the wire nut, and it contacted a ground (for example), using stranded instead of solid, or vice versa, isn't the problem.

If you disconnect the fixture, and go back to your first picture, with the white and black wires connected to nothing on the end where the fixture would connect, and then turn the breaker on, does the breaker trip?

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Flawed

Discussion Starter · #8 · Dec 21, 2012 (Edited)

Dave632 said:
There are two basic ways that the actual copper wire can be made: solid and stranded. Solid means that there's a single, relatively thick wire surrounded by the insulation. Stranded wire uses a number of thinner wires twisted together, with approximately the same overall diameter.

Since the individual wires are thinner, stranded wire is more flexible than solid wire of the same size. But they can be used interchangeably.

Unless you accidentally left one of the strands outside the wire nut, and it contacted a ground (for example), using stranded instead of solid, or vice versa, isn't the problem.

If you disconnect the fixture, and go back to your first picture, with the white and black wires connected to nothing on the end where the fixture would connect, and then turn the breaker on, does the breaker trip?

No the breaker doesn't trip unless that black wire hanging down touches the white one.

But my bedroom LED (which worked before) doesn't turn on anymore either without that light working properly with all wires. No matter what I do. As soon as I put power to that black wire connected with the switch then it trips the breaker.

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Flawed

Discussion Starter · #9 · Dec 22, 2012

Called an electrician. The switch controlling the light was fried and that was the problem.

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mpoulton

· #10 · Dec 23, 2012

A fried switch is incapable of tripping a breaker. However, closing a switch into a short will fry it real fast. I'm surprised it survived doing that more than once. The problem was connecting the fixture wires directly to each other, creating a dead short.

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