[tearitup]

Replacing 6 ft wooden privacy fence - 4x4s w/ 2x4 stringer, vertical pickets.

3 large yellow pine trees are on property line - between neighbors & me.

1) Don't want to destroy trees by ravaging roots by installing 4x4 posts, right next to both sides of each tree. Besides, that leaves no growing room.

2) Would prefer not to build large, bump-out boxes, to build around 3 trees. Mostly - it'd restrict water flow (critical here) & reduce width to move things down the side of the house. Outside AC unit is also near one tree.

Thinking of ways to set 4x4 posts - a few ft away from each tree (on each side). Then devise a short section of fence / stringers / other support wood or metal. One end of the short section attached to a set 4x4 post. The other unattached end butting nearly to each tree trunk. The edges of stingers/ pickets could be trimmed as trees grow.

The "unattached" end of short fence section has to be sturdy /stiff enough - side to side - to keep dogs / kids from pushing it. So, the short section stringers need reinforcing, stiffening - at or spanning across the 4x4, or something. Hopefully, look half decent & last. There can be a vertical 4x4 or 2x4 on the unattached end of fence section, just not buried.

Setting posts 3 - 4 ft back from each tree would do far less damage to roots, plus be easier. Probably have to rent an auger to drill thru massive roots, anyway.

If anyone's done / seen this situation & has pics or ideas - great.
I could mock up a design to stiffen the short fence sections - unattached on one side, then post pics. Maybe it'd spark some better ideas.

 

[joecaption]

Post a picture of the area.
Why not just lay the post out so there not near the tree?

 

[gregzoll]

Either go around it, or pull the fence back onto your property to not interfere with the tree. That is standard SOP.

 

[tearitup]

Why not just lay the post out so there not near the tree?

Because the fence still has to go up to (and stop) or go around the tree. You couldn't "curve" around them - they're too big.
That method would require big boxes - undesirable, for reasons mentioned. Or do you mean, don't put the fence on the property line? That's frowned on in this state.

Either go around it, or pull the fence back onto your property to not interfere with the tree. That is standard SOP.

As mentioned, going around 3, large trees (individually) isn't desirable.
* It'd leave too little room down the side of house - if on my side.
* Large bump outs, with wood down to the ground, would impede water flow - a very serious concern here Lots are pretty flat. We get hurricanes, tropical storms here. And probably interfere w/ AC unit access / service.
* "Pulling the fence onto your property" - mine or neighbors, leaves a very narrow space.
On one tree, it'd mean pulling the fence 3 ft off the property line, making it hard to get down the side or work on AC. The 3 trees cover ~ 30 ft distance.

Also, placing a fence several feet - either side of property line, legally allows the neighbor to claim the land, now on their side of the fence.

Some Fencing contractors may not care about convenient use of the property or proper water run off, after they're gone. They just want the fence up fast.

 

[mako1]

Not going to happen in my experience.You can build around them all you want but eventually the roots are going to heave your posts one way or another.
Do you want the fence or the trees the most?Have to make a decision?

 

[tearitup]

Not going to happen in my experience.

What's not gonna happen?
As for roots pushing posts - setting posts 3-4 ft back from but inline w/ the trees, or 3- 4 ft off property line - no difference. They grow all directions. I don't see a lot of posts moved by roots.
Please explain the decision you mean.

Because of the issues that boxing around them or setting the fence WAY off the property line bring, I was looking more for structural, engineering ideas - on stiffening the short sections.

If we sold, some buyers may look at a fence 3 ft off the property line or zig zagging (a survey shows it) & go, WTH?

 

[gregzoll]

Water flow is not going to be impeded by a wood or other material used for fencing.

Your choice as stated is either move it back on your property line, go around them, or get rid of them as the other option. You will find that the roots after a time that the fence is up, that they will push the posts. Especially if the trees receive a lot of water.

You can argue what you do not want, and keep running around in circles about what you would like to do. But it will still come down to the three options that I mentioned. There is no other way to do this.

 

[gregzoll]

If the buyers see the fence going around the trees, the first thing that they will be thinking is that no permit was pulled and that the fence may not be on the property for the home it is around.

They are not going to be that upset if they see it made to go around the trees, because the trees cannot be moved, but the homeowner wanted to try and take full advantage of as much property. Especially if it is a small backyard.

If they are that picky about the appearance of the fence, they are not serious about buying a home.

 

[beenthere]

Moved to building and construction forum.

 

[Aggie67]

Honestly, having dealt with pine tree and fence issues, you have four options:

1. Go in front of the trees
2. Go behind the trees
3. Don't put up a fence
4. Cut down the trees

 

[carpdad]

Keep the posts away from the trees then build a screen to cover the gap for privacy. A parallel screen. Kids and dogs - if problem - talk to the neighbor and drape a wire screen on the gap. I'd ask gardening or tree forum for where you can sink the post and keep the roots (the tree) safe. I have cut one or two invading root (surface) of a tree (pine, maple, oak???) without harm, but that was in the past and not thinking what may happen to the tree.
Also if you anchor the adjacent posts in concrete, more than usual, the rails can be cantilevered and post not needed. Rest the end on a stone for some support.

 

[ront02769]

I think you all laid out four options.....but missed the fifth and simplest. Incorporate the trees into the fence! Ther is a tavern in Wakefield ri that was built on a lot with a huge old tree....so now the tree is in the middle of the place! Very simple to run your posts and totally permanent face up to the trees...and then just run something TO them. So every ten years you gotta adjust....no worries. Ron

 

[tearitup]

Thanks for comments.

Water flow is not going to be impeded by a wood or other material used for fencing.

Of course it is. This is the main water drainage from back yard, down side of house.

If any water channel is restricted (bottlenecked), water depth rises behind the restriction. Fairly simple. Can't chance it getting ANY deeper than does now with no obstructions.
These slabs weren't built much more than 4 - 5" above grade.

I believe this can be done, using one or both these simple methods, or other effective variations:

* Adding length of 2x4 or painted angle iron, bridging across the fixed post, onto stringers in the unanchored fence section.

* Use large, galvanized angle brackets, lag screwed to the fixed post & 3 stringers of the short section.

Likely, a 24 to 30 in. length of angle iron - maybe 2x4, lag screwed to all 3 stringers & fixed post would keep the unanchored end of a ~ 3 ft. fence section from moving - unless corralling cattle.

* Adding galvanized angle brackets at each stringer in the short fence section would likely make it even stronger.

* As a test, I can use an existing concreted in post & cut short stringers. Lag screw a 2x4 or angle iron, scabbed across where they meet & test the force needed to move the loose stringer end.
These are privacy fences, not King Kong cages. :smile:

 

[kwikfishron]

How about posting some pictures so we can see what you're seeing. Do that and the solution to your particular situation should be obvious.

 

[jimn]

Questions . Where is the actual property line? In my area the entire fence must on my property with enough room on the other side that I can maintain the fence without trespassing . Who owns the trees? There is no adverse possession unless the neighbor uses the space full time, aka building a walk , planting a vegetable garden etc.

 

[ront02769]

To the op, you are making way more of this than you need to. Incorporate the trees into the fence. Set the bottom of the fence six inches above grade (so your privacy is good unless the neighbor's lay on their belly and look up). Done and done. Ron

 

[gregzoll]

Again water will not be inhibited by the fence, because it does not and should never be made to touch the ground or be buried in the ground.

You are over thinking a very simple project.

 

[gregzoll]

To the op, you are making way more of this than you need to. Incorporate the trees into the fence. Set the bottom of the fence six inches above grade (so your privacy is good unless the neighbor's lay on their belly and look up). Done and done. Ron

I am guessing some type of Engineer.

 

[tearitup]

Thanks guys.

kwikfisheron, They're just large trees sitting right on the property boundary (side boundary, not back), and a fence that's in terrible shape. Trees too big to build a big box around - it'd interfere w/ accessing the AC condenser.

I will incorporate the trees inline w/ the fence - that's what I said. I was just looking for ideas on stiffening the cantilevered sections of fence. No one had any yet - that's perfectly OK. :biggrin2:

Building boxes is more difficult & obtrusive than what I'm proposing.
If no other reason, it means 4 holes close to a tree, vs. 2.
Cause way too much root damage close to trees. I grow trees for a living. Southern Pine Bark beetles infest & kill distressed pine trees.

 

[Fix'n it]

i would cantilever the fence over to the tree. as the tree grows, trim the fence.

box's seem to be a hillbilly way to do it.