[PSUlion01]

Hi All,

Over the past year, i've gradually been accumulating pieces of old Rainbow swingset hardware (slides, swings, etc) that had been retired. The plan now is to construct a two-tier clubhouse along with an A-frame swingset off the other side (in fact, i've got instruction guides for some Rainbow systems sets and will be following those as a guideline).

The build I have in mind is as follows:
- One deck will be 5' off the ground, and will be the main landing, with a ladder/rock wall to get up and a straight slide down to the ground.
- The second deck will be 7' off the ground. There will be a small ladder or steps from the first deck to get up, and an enclosed tube slide to the ground. This upper-deck will be fairly buttoned-up and contained for safety reasons.
- A swing beam will extend from the rail on the lower deck, and will likely hold 3 swings.

I'll try to upload a few sketches i've made, in addition to the SketchUp model currently in progress. Hopefully that will help you visualize things better.

My questions (at the moment) mainly relate to the construction of the clubhouse portion, and more specifically the posts and contact with the ground.
- Consistent with the Rainbow (and other) designs, it doesn't appear that the posts are sunken into the ground. They construct the frame, level it, and anchor with spikes or hardware made specifically for swingsets. Any concerns with this? Given the positioning of the tube slide (on one side), straight slide (front), ladder/ramp (back), and swing beam (other side), would the footprint be wide enough to alleviate concerns of the structure toppling? Again, all of these mass-produced sets don't have posts sunken and cemented.

- Regarding the general frame for the clubhouse, I was thinking of using 4x4 posts, with 4 12' posts for the upper deck (deck height of 7', railing height at 10', and then an additional 2' above that to attach a roof/canopy). For the lower deck, two of the 12' posts would be shared, and the other two posts would be 4x4x10' (deck height of 5', railing height at 8' and again 2 additional feet for the roof/canopy). Keeping it all together would likely be 2x6's for horitonal and diagonal supports. Does this seem sufficient?

I'll leave this here to start, but would appreciate some comments and feedback from any of you that might have done something similar in the past. Once I add my SketchUp project to this post hopefully things will become more clear.

Thanks!

 

[de-nagorg]

Let's say that you have 3 swings going at the same time with an 80-90 pound kid in each, They get synchronized and all swing together higher and higher.

Can you imagine the inertia force on the thing.

I personally would anchor it in a footing of some kind.

ED

 

[PSUlion01]

I hear you, but i guess what I'm trying to understand is how all of these mass-produced sets, which would have the same exact concern, get away without the concrete footings.


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[mako1]

It's not their kids swinging on it and they are probably in China .So you'd have a hard time suing them .And when the neighbors kids get injured on a swingset of your design they can't sue them either but they will sue you.
Just spend a few extra bucks and make sure it's safe.Nobody likes to see kids get hurt.

 

[PSUlion01]

It's not their kids swinging on it and they are probably in China .So you'd have a hard time suing them .And when the neighbors kids get injured on a swingset of your design they can't sue them either but they will sue you.
Just spend a few extra bucks and make sure it's safe.Nobody likes to see kids get hurt.

Hmmm good point.

That being said, do you think it would be necessary to sink every post? Any thoughts on how to anchor the posts? Simpson standoffs in the concrete footings? Swing set anchors set in the concrete footings? I assume that I wouldn't want to just cement the post directly in the hole, correct?

 

[mako1]

If it were me I would pour some sontubes with concrete and Simpson ties anchored in the footing to support the frame.This solves two problems.It gives you a good solid anchor and will give you a lot longer life out of your posts.

 

[PSUlion01]

If it were me I would pour some sontubes with concrete and Simpson ties anchored in the footing to support the frame.This solves two problems.It gives you a good solid anchor and will give you a lot longer life out of your posts.

Yeah same that I was thinking. I haven't used the Simpson ties before. Will those let me adjust the posts when attaching (to have them level and plumb), or do I need to fuss a good deal with getting the ties level before they set? Any tricks or tips on that front?

 

[de-nagorg]

Set up a laser level in the center of your area before pouring concrete in tubes.

Then pour, turn on the level, insert the ties in the concrete adjusting by the level.

They should all be equi distant level then.


ED

 

[carpdad]

Personal experience with home built a-frame swing. 2 kids 40 lbs each? - yrs ago. The frame almost tipped over. You MUST anchor the frame. If 3 kids and heavier, I'd sink 3'x1' piers for each leg without having some specific instruction. The school play ground sets have substantial legs-just looking at the posts above ground. Also if your set is old (also missing a manual), I'd assume the connectors may be structurally weak. Just the sun uv can weaken plastics. Metal rivets must be suspect.

 

[PSUlion01]

Thanks again for the feedback. Been busy and haven't had much time to focus on this, but getting back to it now.

I think I'm set on the footings and anchoring the set. Regarding the bolts needed, mainly to connect the 2x6's to the 4x4 posts, what would the recommended length and type be for an optimal connection? Obviously don't want a bunch of long bolts where the kids can get poked. Should I be looking at 5" carriage bolts with the nut countersunk into the post about a half inch? Are the carriage bolts going to be a pain, with slippage in the holes, difficultly disassembling down the road, etc? Alternatively, hex bolts, again, 5" countersunk a bit on both ends, or will I need longer to account for washers, but, etc.

Some guidance here would be helpful as I don't want to compromise he structure by drilling/countersinking more than necessary, but I also don't want too much excess steel poking out everywhere.

Thanks!


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[PSUlion01]

Thanks again for the feedback. Been busy and haven't had much time to focus on this, but getting back to it now.

I think I'm set on the footings and anchoring the set. Regarding the bolts needed, mainly to connect the 2x6's to the 4x4 posts, what would the recommended length and type be for an optimal connection? Obviously don't want a bunch of long bolts where the kids can get poked. Should I be looking at 5" carriage bolts with the nut countersunk into the post about a half inch? Are the carriage bolts going to be a pain, with slippage in the holes, difficultly disassembling down the road, etc? Alternatively, hex bolts, again, 5" countersunk a bit on both ends, or will I need longer to account for washers, but, etc.

Some guidance here would be helpful as I don't want to compromise he structure by drilling/countersinking more than necessary, but I also don't want too much excess steel poking out everywhere.

Thanks!


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Bump on this last post regarding bolt length (and diameter suggestions -- 3/8"?)

Appreciate the feedback. Thanks!


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[de-nagorg]

Most people use 1/2 inch diameter carriage bolts.

As for length try for the thickness of the material you are bolting together, assuming that you countersink the nuts.

As for metal sticking out, cover it with a plug made from a large dowel , after trimming the excess bolt off.


ED

 

[PSUlion01]

Most people use 1/2 inch diameter carriage bolts.



As for length try for the thickness of the material you are bolting together, assuming that you countersink the nuts.



As for metal sticking out, cover it with a plug made from a large dowel , after trimming the excess bolt off.





ED

How far should I aim to countersink? I assume that I'd want to countersink the nut into the thicker material when possible. Not sure how the dowel plugs would work with 2x material. Wouldn't the countersunk holes need to be drilled too deep in order to accept a plug like that? Seems like it would compromise the structure too much.

Lastly, would carriage bolts make disassembly years from now a headache (with bolts spinning etc). Plan to have this up for a while but you never know...)


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[de-nagorg]

If I were to try plugging a hole over a nut, I would drill the plug enough that it would recess over the nut, in the hole, and still have a solid cap over the nut, to be cut flush with the surrounding beam.

All you really want is to hide the nut, and keep tender skin from being torn by a bolt.
As an alternative to a cap , a person could cut short pieces of an old garden hose and cover the bolt threads, but this looks "******* customized" then.

Yes a carriage bolt will probably not be an easy removal.

I have had to remove enough wood to be able to get a Vise-grip on the head to have leverage to unbolt some of them.


ED

 

[PSUlion01]

If I were to try plugging a hole over a nut, I would drill the plug enough that it would recess over the nut, in the hole, and still have a solid cap over the nut, to be cut flush with the surrounding beam.



All you really want is to hide the nut, and keep tender skin from being torn by a bolt.

As an alternative to a cap , a person could cut short pieces of an old garden hose and cover the bolt threads, but this looks "******* customized" then.



Yes a carriage bolt will probably not be an easy removal.



I have had to remove enough wood to be able to get a Vise-grip on the head to have leverage to unbolt some of them.





ED

Thanks again. I see my disconnect now...you're talking about drilling out a hole in the dowel in order to cap the bolt. I was picturing more of a plug that goes into the countersink hole. No drill press here (possibly an excuse to buy one!), but the dowel approach seems like a good deal of extra work. May just look into some metal or plastic cap nuts instead.

As for the carriage vs hex, I've seen torque washers referenced, but haven't been able to locate them easily. Have also seen people suggest placing a finishing nail in the hole before inserting the carriage bolt (supposedly helps prevent the spinning). Last option would be an angle grinder to the head of the bolt to essentially create a slot like a screw would have. Again, extra work hat may or may not matter or be needed down the road. Really just trying to balance cost (minimal difference from what I can see), with time/effort, and most importantly the possible hazard with the kids and rough edges. No ideal solution unfortunately...


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[Mingledtrash]

I hear you, but i guess what I'm trying to understand is how all of these mass-produced sets, which would have the same exact concern, get away without the concrete footings.


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Most likely with a whole lot of fine print and legalize printed in the manuals. I have actually seen cheap swing sets tip over because of this. I dont know the limits i am not an engineer but i do know that if you get a bunch of adults drunk and they decide it will be funny to all go and swing on the swing your gonna have a bad day.