[Ultrarunner2017]

Hi;
I need to rant, so please bear with me...

I am looking at replacing the fluorescent light (double F20-T12) above the sink with an LED model. I found one on Amazon that looked pretty good, but I needed to find out whether or not the fixture needed an electrical box, or would accept the Romex or BX cable itself. Turns out that it's neither. It has only a large cutout for the wires, with no other openings. So if you want to wire it to Romex or BX, you can either not clamp the cable - just let it hang into the fixture, or install the correct box, with the cable clamped into it, and then drill two holes in the fixture to match the holes in the box to attach the fixture to the box. But from the question I posted, and the answers I received, there are no screw holes. Just the large cutout. So I guess the mfr expects you to drill your own holes, or perhaps these people aren't answering my questions correctly.

They do sell a corded model which simply plugs into a receptacle, but being that this light is intended for kitchen use, I wonder how many people know that their countertop receptacles, and any within 6ft of the sink must be GFCI protected. I can just imagine someone reaching to turn on the light (it has a switch on the fixture) while hands are on or in the sink, and the fixture isn't properly grounded, and has a ground fault...

Still, I have to expect this kind of product from Amazon. While they do sell decent stuff, I don't think they are a good source for home improvement items, and especially not electrical.

From what i have learned from others, there was a time when any product imported into or made in the U.S. was required to meet or exceed certain specs and code. Today, it seems that anyone can sell anything to anyone without regard of how it will be installed or used.

So, in the end, I am probably going to replace the fixture with another fluorescent, and I may just purchase it from an electrical supply or lighting store, and not "Home Despair" or "Amazing things from China"!

KE2KB - LICENSED HAM station. I communicate using only FCC approved equipment!
I could go on about bogus HAM gear from China as well, but I'll leave you alone now.

Edit: Here is the mounting/installation info provided on Amazon.

Easy installation:
Distance measurement: There are 2 mounting holes on the backside and 2 on the top. First, decide which 2 you would like to use; then calculate the length and install the screws. Connecting circuit:
there are 6 binding posts on the backside of the wall lamp; the left row is input binding post and the right row is output. L represents live wire and N for null line,
the medium line is ground electrode (we have circuit connection picture for reference). Install the lamp:
Just put the lamp on the installation screws gently without any additional accessories required

Binding posts? I surely hope not the type I use for experimentation...

 

[SPS-1]

People always look for the cheapest $&#T they can possibly find. Go to an electrical supply house and you will find good LED fixtures, probably made in China, but they will be 5 x the price of the ones on Amazon.

 

[dmxtothemax]

They sell cheap junk because there is a market for it.
IE the customers want it.
So there is a market for it
And whilst there is a market for it
Then the shops will continue to sell it.
Free market supply and demand.

 

[Ultrarunner2017]

and last 5x as long too!
What I find very disturbing is that sometimes it isn't even possible (or feasible) to buy something of quality. Even companies who had great reputations in the past are caving to the demand for low cost items.

Funny but the fixture I purchased 24" F20-T12 tubes for today at HD is working better with a set of tubes from another fixture. When I tried the ones I purchased at HD, they were loose in the sockets. I thought i needed new sockets, but the pins still make contact. When I turned the lamp on with the two new tubes, it was the same as with the old tubes. I switched it off immediately, because at $10 each for the tubes, I am going to return them rather than wait for another fixture to need them (I have only one other fixture that uses these tubes).
so, I'm thinking it's the ballast. But then I take the two tubes from the other fixture, in which one of the tubes was flickering a bit, and they work fine in the kitchen fixture. These tubes are probably a lot older than the ones I was replacing in the kitchen fixture.

I have been having a lot of trouble with the newer fluorescent tubes. Same issue with the 4ft ones. I bought a box of them from HD, and they work in some fixtures, but not in others. Probably a high/low spec issue between the tubes and the ballasts. Another quality issue. All of these fixtures were purchased from Home Depot.

Maybe I'll just install gas lamps :vs_bulb:

 

[SPS-1]

But if you had gone to a (good) electrical supply house, they would have given you the option of an instant start ballast, rapid start ballast, or a programmed start ballast. And a guy at the counter knowledgeable enough to explain the difference.
The guy I talked to said he had some cheap fixtures, just so they can compete with HD when they had to, but did not recommend them.

I was initially looking for LED tubes also, but the products are not there yet, unless you buy commercial fixtures, which are very pricey.

 

[Bob Sanders]

Hi;
I need to rant, so please bear with me...

I am looking at replacing the fluorescent light (double F20-T12) above the sink with an LED model. I found one on Amazon that looked pretty good, but I needed to find out whether or not the fixture needed an electrical box, or would accept the Romex or BX cable itself. Turns out that it's neither. It has only a large cutout for the wires, with no other openings. So if you want to wire it to Romex or BX, you can either not clamp the cable - just let it hang into the fixture, or install the correct box, with the cable clamped into it, and then drill two holes in the fixture to match the holes in the box to attach the fixture to the box. But from the question I posted, and the answers I received, there are no screw holes. Just the large cutout. So I guess the mfr expects you to drill your own holes, or perhaps these people aren't answering my questions correctly.

They do sell a corded model which simply plugs into a receptacle, but being that this light is intended for kitchen use, I wonder how many people know that their countertop receptacles, and any within 6ft of the sink must be GFCI protected. I can just imagine someone reaching to turn on the light (it has a switch on the fixture) while hands are on or in the sink, and the fixture isn't properly grounded, and has a ground fault...

Still, I have to expect this kind of product from Amazon. While they do sell decent stuff, I don't think they are a good source for home improvement items, and especially not electrical.

From what i have learned from others, there was a time when any product imported into or made in the U.S. was required to meet or exceed certain specs and code. Today, it seems that anyone can sell anything to anyone without regard of how it will be installed or used.

So, in the end, I am probably going to replace the fixture with another fluorescent, and I may just purchase it from an electrical supply or lighting store, and not "Home Despair" or "Amazing things from China"!

KE2KB - LICENSED HAM station. I communicate using only FCC approved equipment!
I could go on about bogus HAM gear from China as well, but I'll leave you alone now.

Edit: Here is the mounting/installation info provided on Amazon.

Easy installation:
Distance measurement: There are 2 mounting holes on the backside and 2 on the top. First, decide which 2 you would like to use; then calculate the length and install the screws. Connecting circuit:
there are 6 binding posts on the backside of the wall lamp; the left row is input binding post and the right row is output. L represents live wire and N for null line,
the medium line is ground electrode (we have circuit connection picture for reference). Install the lamp:
Just put the lamp on the installation screws gently without any additional accessories required

Binding posts? I surely hope not the type I use for experimentation...

Well first, you get what you pay for. It's a supply and demand world. China (just like every other Country) makes quality stuff for those who want to spend the money, and they also make crap to supply those who aren't interested in spending money.

Second, I believe the USA is much the same as Canada.... what is SOLD in the USA must be ul certified (in Canada's case it must be csa certified), but imported stuff does not. I drove to the USA and bought an American stove there because it was not csa approved and therfore not sold in Canada.... but I had no issues at all getting across the border with it.

 

[SPS-1]

I'm asking the question, not making a statement here, but isn't the rule that the appliance needs to have appropriate ratings to be INSTALLED, but not necessarily to be sold?

 

[Bob Sanders]

I'm asking the question, not making a statement here, but isn't the rule that the appliance needs to have appropriate ratings to be INSTALLED, but not necessarily to be sold?

The way I understood it... it's the other way around. You can't sell non ul approved in the US, but there is no law which says you can't import and use non UL stuff

Now that may be different with hardwired (non plug in stuff), since the code requires everything used to be ul certified.

 

[WhatRnsdownhill]

I'm asking the question, not making a statement here, but isn't the rule that the appliance needs to have appropriate ratings to be INSTALLED, but not necessarily to be sold?

there are alot of stuff sold that should never be used...so with that in mind, its up to you to look and see what is good or bad and code....now factor in all the fake ul stamps on stuff..perfect example of late are those motorized skate boards that are catching fire..amazon sold them and in the investigation, the ones burning up were fake and not made by the company...

 

[Bob Sanders]

there are alot of stuff sold that should never be used...so with that in mind, its up to you to look and see what is good or bad and code....now factor in all the fake ul stamps on stuff..perfect example of late are those motorized skate boards that are catching fire..amazon sold them and in the investigation, the ones burning up were fake and not made by the company...

Well, it all has to be taken with a grain of salt.

If you have a vacuum and the plug breaks on it, you go to the store and buy a new plug for it and replace the broken plug. A perfectly acceptable repair and it's done all the time. But technically speaking the vacuum is no longer UL certificated because you have altered it.

Other Countries certify their stuff in other ways as well. As mentioned above, I had to go to the USA to buy the GE range I wanted because it did not meet our standards in Canada and therefore was not sold here. On the other hand it is UL certified so it is considered safe in the USA.

 

[WhatRnsdownhill]

Well, it all has to be taken with a grain of salt.

If you have a vacuum and the plug breaks on it, you go to the store and buy a new plug for it and replace the broken plug. A perfectly acceptable repair and it's done all the time. But technically speaking the vacuum is no longer UL certificated because you have altered it.

ok ill clarify..strictly talking new manufacture of products...