[richp0]

I'm remodeling my kitchen, and replacing/relocating some appliances. To do so, I need to extend an 8 ga circuit. Is it ok to put a junction box inside the cabinet, behind where the microwave will be installed? It's a standard countertop microwave, with a trim kit that will cover the entire enclosure.

The other option would be in the attic directly above the same cabinet.

Is there a preferred approach?

Thanks

 

[gregzoll]

Only if you can open the cabinet and see the junction box. Otherwise, it is illegal in the scope, due to you have to remove the microwave to get to the junction box. It would be the same as installing a cabinet, and not cutting an access hole where a junction box was placed on the wall. Think of it this way, if there is a problem, how is the next electrician or home owner going to know where to look.

 

[richp0]

Only if you can open the cabinet and see the junction box. Otherwise, it is illegal in the scope, due to you have to remove the microwave to get to the junction box. It would be the same as installing a cabinet, and not cutting an access hole where a junction box was placed on the wall. Think of it this way, if there is a problem, how is the next electrician or home owner going to know where to look.

Thanks! I assume there's no issue putting junction box for 8 ga in the attic - correct? Any special considerations for that gauge?

 

[vsheetz]

attic is fine as long as accessible.

 

[gregzoll]

Make sure you use the proper connectors to secure the cable where it meets the other going to the new receptacle. BTW, is this Aluminum or Copper #8.

 

[richp0]

It's copper

 

[jbfan]

Is this stove wiring?
Is it 4 conductor?
3 condutor wiring is prohibited from being extended.

 

[electures]

I'm remodeling my kitchen, and replacing/relocating some appliances. To do so, I need to extend an 8 ga circuit. Is it ok to put a junction box inside the cabinet, behind where the microwave will be installed? It's a standard countertop microwave, with a trim kit that will cover the entire enclosure.

The other option would be in the attic directly above the same cabinet.

Is there a preferred approach?

Thanks

The NEC states the following;


314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures to Be Accessible.

​

​

Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building or, in underground circuits, without excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that is to be used to establish the finished grade.​

A junction box behind the M/W is compliant is long as it is accessible when the M/W is removed. It is no different then the receptacle that the M/W plugs into, or a junction box for a wall mounted oven. The M/W is not part of the building or structure.​

 

[gregzoll]

electures, if you have to remove screws to detach the microwave, it is considered a non-compliant use of the junction box. That is why when over the range microwaves are installed, their plugs are up in the cabinet, not directly behind it. If it was a counter-top, or slid into a microwave cabinet above the stove, then yes it is considered removable without having to detach it from the structure.

 

[electures]

electures, if you have to remove screws to detach the microwave, it is considered a non-compliant use of the junction box. That is why when over the range microwaves are installed, their plugs are up in the cabinet, not directly behind it. If it was a counter-top, or slid into a microwave cabinet above the stove, then yes it is considered removable without having to detach it from the structure.

Sorry, you are incorrect. The M/w is not part of the structure. It is an portable appliance.

 

[richp0]

It's a 3-conductor cable for a cooktop.

As noted earlier, the microwave has a trim kit. The trim kit screws onto brackets, which fasten to the insides of the cabinet.

 

[gregzoll]

Sorry, you are incorrect. The M/w is not part of the structure. It is an portable appliance.

Again, it is a part of the structure, when it is screwed into the securing rail to hold it over a range, or counter. The rules apply, because you have to remove it from the structure, in order to get behind it. That is why again, they place the outlet for them above in a cabinet, so it can be de-powered in case of incident that may warrant so.

 

[gregzoll]

It's a 3-conductor cable for a cooktop.

As noted earlier, the microwave has a trim kit. The trim kit screws onto brackets, which fasten to the insides of the cabinet.

In that case, follow the directions to place the jb up in the attic, or in the cabinet if cut out is able to be made.

 

[richp0]

What about other comment from jbfan, that "3 condutor wiring is prohibited from being extended". Does that mean that I really need to run a new line from the service entrance?

 

[G-Mo]

Again, it is a part of the structure, when it is screwed into the securing rail to hold it over a range, or counter. The rules apply, because you have to remove it from the structure, in order to get behind it. That is why again, they place the outlet for them above in a cabinet, so it can be de-powered in case of incident that may warrant so.

According to the CEC/OESC and numerous ESA inspectors, this is correct.

 

[rjniles]

What about other comment from jbfan, that "3 condutor wiring is prohibited from being extended". Does that mean that I really need to run a new line from the service entrance?

Is your cook top rated as 120/240 or 240 volts?

Is you 3 wire cable , 2 insulated conductors with bare ground or is it 3 insulated conductors?


If the cook top is rated 240 volts and your cable is 2 insulated conductors with a bare ground, you can install it and be code compliant.

 

[richp0]

Specifications just list 240V and 208V (I assume the latter is for other countries). All 3 wires are insulated. I take it this means I need to run a new line.

 

[electures]

Again, it is a part of the structure, when it is screwed into the securing rail to hold it over a range, or counter. The rules apply, because you have to remove it from the structure, in order to get behind it. That is why again, they place the outlet for them above in a cabinet, so it can be de-powered in case of incident that may warrant so.

Again I will reference the NEC.

314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures to Be Accessible.

Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building or, in underground circuits, without excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that is to be used to establish the finished grade.​

Article 100 definitions states;

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods).​

​

​

​

​

Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.

The JB behind the MW is accessible. The MW is not part of the structure. There is nothing wrong with putting the JB behind the MW.

If you disagree please provide a code reference.​

 

[rjniles]

Specifications just list 240V and 208V (I assume the latter is for other countries). All 3 wires are insulated. I take it this means I need to run a new line.

I assume the 3 insulated wires are red, black, white. By code yes, you need a bare or green wire for the ground.

Code is a little strange in this area; if you were to run an 8-2 NM cable, the 2 hots would be black and white (re-marked black) and a bare ground. But you would not be allowed to re-mark one of your insulated conductors as a ground. What you have is 2 hots and a neutral.

Just so you understand, you do not need a neutral for your cook top. It is straight 240

 

[gregzoll]

Again I will reference the NEC.

314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures to Be Accessible.

Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building or, in underground circuits, without excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that is to be used to establish the finished grade.

Article 100 definitions states;

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.

The JB behind the MW is accessible. The MW is not part of the structure. There is nothing wrong with putting the JB behind the MW.

If you disagree please provide a code reference.

And again, if I am looking for a problem in an electrical circuit, I am going for the obvious places that the JB is going to be. I am not even going to think the first place to lool is behind a microwave that has yo have screws removed, lifted out of place with possible help with another person. That is why it is a non compliant placement of the JB.