[JulieMor]

We're having a driveway replaced and added to. When they tore up the old driveway there was about a foot of sand under the slab.

After the new driveway was formed, the contractor ran a tamper over everything. Problem is they never cut away the existing dirt or tore out any roots from bushes that were removed. They were compacting dirt that was mixed with sand. I've been on jobsites where the inspector failed the pre-pour inspection for a few sticks. No way would they approve pouring over dirt and roots.

So I called the building department and asked the building inspector if they approve of a concrete driveway being poured like this. He said, "It's just a driveway."

If Florida lax or is Chicago strict?

 

[SeniorSitizen]

We're having a driveway replaced and added to. When they tore up the old driveway there was about a foot of sand under the slab.

After the new driveway was formed, the contractor ran a tamper over everything. Problem is they never cut away the existing dirt or tore out any roots from bushes that were removed. They were compacting dirt that was mixed with sand. I've been on jobsites where the inspector failed the pre-pour inspection for a few sticks. No way would they approve pouring over dirt and roots.

So I called the building department and asked the building inspector if they approve of a concrete driveway being poured like this. He said, "It's just a driveway."

If Florida lax or is Chicago strict?

Florida is lax. No organic material should remain.
Sand is OK as long as it's the correct sand that's compactable but not mixed with dirt. It isn't sand as kids would build sand castles at the beach of but more like foundry sand.

To me it's not just a drive way when I spend thousands.

 

[Canarywood1]

Julie there's no dirt here, it's either clean sand or dirty sand.

 

[BigJim]

He said, "It's just a driveway."

If Florida lax or is Chicago strict?

I bet if it were his driveway he wouldn't be saying that.

 

[JulieMor]

Julie there's no dirt here, it's either clean sand or dirty sand.

After I read this, I went outside and picked up a handful and you're right, it's dirty sand. But this stuff doesn't compact. When he ran the tamper over it, it left rows of fluff to the side. It's pretty fine.

When asked about the roots popping up, the guy doing the forms said, "You'll never see it once the concrete is poured." Is this attitude typical here?

The neighbor across the street built his house in 2005. He came over when they were digging out for the new section and said he's considering having his driveway redone. He has pavers set on concrete and part of it is failing. Same with the neighbors next door. Their house is also a 2005 build.

I just don't want this to fail like our neighbors' driveways have but when the building department is on the side of not laying a good base, what can you do?

We're having the contractor install rebar along the outer perimeter. This came out of a conversation we had with him when he was pricing out the job. I wanted 10x10 wire mesh but he said fibermesh concrete is better for this climate. Being new here, I didn't argue.

Still, I'm not getting warm fuzzies...

 

[joed]

If they use enough rebar you might be OK as the concrete will continue to span any soft spots.

 

[Canarywood1]

Sounds like it was pretty dry, should have been at least a little on the wet side so it would compact. And since your paying the bill here, insist on what you want done, as to the rebar it's really a waste of time, as is the mesh, and the fibre in this application is useless also.

Just be sure your standing there when the pour is made, and don't let them pour at a high slump, as they are prone to do.



Forgot to ask , is this home new construction?

 

[SeniorSitizen]

If quality contractors are as difficult to find as quality building inspectors in your area I'd recommend the services of a firm that deals in concrete construction. Paying them to write a contract and oversee the project is looking like a good investment, otherwise it's looking like an inevitable failure.

 

[jomama45]

I'd be surprised if the building department would actually come out to perform a pre-pour inspection on a residential driveway, even in Chicago.........

 

[JulieMor]

Sounds like it was pretty dry, should have been at least a little on the wet side so it would compact. And since your paying the bill here, insist on what you want done, as to the rebar it's really a waste of time, as is the mesh, and the fibre in this application is useless also.

Just be sure your standing there when the pour is made, and don't let them pour at a high slump, as they are prone to do.

Forgot to ask , is this home new construction?

No, it's an older house, built in 1964. Interesting thing is everything I've found that's original has been impressive. Block walls that are plumb and square, stud walls that are perfect, terrazzo floors flat and level. And when they took up the old driveway, there was clean, compact-able sand, probably a foot deep.

Why are the rebar, mesh and fibermesh a waste of time?

And what is a "high slump".

BTW, thanks for the help.

 

[Msradell]

And what is a "high slump".

BTW, thanks for the help.

High slump = sloppy cement. The more water you had to cement the higher the slump. To measure slump they fill a cone with concrete and use a ride to ensure the cone is full. They then remove the cone and measure how far the concrete settles from the top of the cone. The measurement of slump is how many inches the concrete has fallen from the height of the cone. A good slump is 4-5 for a driveway. The more water you add makes the work easier for the people pouring the concrete but makes the finished product weaker.

 

[stadry]

rad meant ' rod '

no matter what, in the end, its YOUR driveway,,, sand doesn't compact well even damp,,, IF you use steel, it MUST be covered by 2" conc above AND below the bar,,, so, if using #4 (1/2" bar), you need a 4 1/2" thick driveway,,, i replaced mine 8yrs ago & used no steel,,, instead it got a proper joint pattern placed at the correct time,,, fibermesh is good for a bigger boat if you own a mesh plant,,, when it 1st came out, it was a silver bullet - now more realize it ain't,,, roll'd up welded wire mesh's almost impossible to place where its supposed to go - in the vert plane's midpoint +/- 5% or .2" by the time your conc jabonies finish tramping thru the mud

the time to decide is BEFORE work starts,,, nothing upsets contractors more than ' wait a minute - i want,,,,,,,,,,,, ' from owners :vs_mad:

just happened to think - unsure about chicago & il but had a retired chi inspector on a job in hilton head,,, according to him, sc's bldg code rqmnts are more stringent (probably due to shore/storm code),,, fl's contractor test standards're higher than ga/sc's

 

[landfillwizard]

Julie,

What are you willing to spend on a good driveway? I replaced my driveway in NYS with a layer of geofabric, 12" of (-1) crusher run limestone placed in 3 lifts and each lift compacted, 5½" of 4000 psi concrete with 4% air. I used 10" welded wire set on 3" chairs. The wire was not set on the chairs until the contractor could reach over the concrete without stepping on the wire. I placed drainage stone along the edge of compacted layer to drain water away from the compacted base gravel.

Yes, this was expensive! However, 10 years later the driveway is still in places and only a few of the control joints have cracks.

 

[Canarywood1]

Julie,

What are you willing to spend on a good driveway? I replaced my driveway in NYS with a layer of geofabric, 12" of (-1) crusher run limestone placed in 3 lifts and each lift compacted, 5½" of 4000 psi concrete with 4% air. I used 10" welded wire set on 3" chairs. The wire was not set on the chairs until the contractor could reach over the concrete without stepping on the wire. I placed drainage stone along the edge of compacted layer to drain water away from the compacted base gravel.

Yes, this was expensive! However, 10 years later the driveway is still in places and only a few of the control joints have cracks.

I did none of the above, poured on compacted sand, slump was between 3 1/2 and 4 inches of 3000 psi and 23 years later the only cracks are in the control joints, where they should be.

 

[Canarywood1]

rad meant ' rod '

no matter what, in the end, its YOUR driveway,,, sand doesn't compact well even damp,,, IF you use steel, it MUST be covered by 2" conc above AND below the bar,,, so, if using #4 (1/2" bar), you need a 4 1/2" thick driveway,,, i replaced mine 8yrs ago & used no steel,,, instead it got a proper joint pattern placed at the correct time,,, fibermesh is good for a bigger boat if you own a mesh plant,,, when it 1st came out, it was a silver bullet - now more realize it ain't,,, roll'd up welded wire mesh's almost impossible to place where its supposed to go - in the vert plane's midpoint +/- 5% or .2" by the time your conc jabonies finish tramping thru the mud

the time to decide is BEFORE work starts,,, nothing upsets contractors more than ' wait a minute - i want,,,,,,,,,,,, ' from owners :vs_mad:

just happened to think - unsure about chicago & il but had a retired chi inspector on a job in hilton head,,, according to him, sc's bldg code rqmnts are more stringent (probably due to shore/storm code),,, fl's contractor test standards're higher than ga/sc's

Only inspectors i had to deal with were if the job was paid for by the city, then one was in the yard, and did his testing there, when he released the load it was fair game for anything, as there were no inspectors on the job it self, state inspectors were in the yard AND on the job, no hanky panky allowed, delivery tickets must be time stamped when load leaves the yard, time load allowed in the drum 1 hour, then rejected, VERY picky.

 

[JulieMor]

They finished pouring around noon. At 4PM a torrential downpour hit. Great timing. The driveway swales are under water.

Just before the rain hit

and then...

This is what the swale looked like before being submerged

 

[Canarywood1]

Looks like they did a very nice job, when you say they finished the pour around noon, did you mean the finishing as in the pic's was done?

 

[jomama45]

Depending on how well the concrete was setting, it might be OK. You have to keep in mind, concrete set's MUCH faster than it did even 10 years ago.

It may sound odd, but the concrete that is under water might fair better than the rest, as it's "cushioned" from the heavy rain and runoff once it's submerged. Although, I woud be concerned that all the water pools there, and doesn't run away faster, unless there's somethign temporary obstructing it?

 

[JulieMor]

Looks like they did a very nice job, when you say they finished the pour around noon, did you mean the finishing as in the pic's was done?

No. The concrete truck left around noon. It took them another three hours to complete the finishing. It was drizzling a bit when they left but it stopped. Then around 4 it poured.

Cool thing is after the downpour stopped, I went out looking for a way to drain off the water pooled on the swale. I noticed our neighbors, who are downstream from us, didn't have any standing water on their driveway. Looking closer I realized there was a grass berm on the edge of our driveway acting like a dam.

I took out a shovel and started digging it out. Then I hear a trickling coming from the grass. Turns out there's a 4" drain hidden by the grass. That's why the neighbor's driveway never gets standing water. I finished cutting the trench and the water drained off the driveway.

I have no idea where that 4" pipe goes but it took every bit of water without filling up. More research needed...

Yeah, they did do a nice job.

They left the driveway 3/4" high at the street to cover the next asphalt topping on the street. FWIW, the concrete at the street is probably 7-8" deep.

 

[Canarywood1]

No. The concrete truck left around noon. It took them another three hours to complete the finishing. It was drizzling a bit when they left but it stopped. Then around 4 it poured.

Cool thing is after the downpour stopped, I went out looking for a way to drain off the water pooled on the swale. I noticed our neighbors, who are downstream from us, didn't have any standing water on their driveway. Looking closer I realized there was a grass berm on the edge of our driveway acting like a dam.

I took out a shovel and started digging it out. Then I hear a trickling coming from the grass. Turns out there's a 4" drain hidden by the grass. That's why the neighbor's driveway never gets standing water. I finished cutting the trench and the water drained off the driveway.

I have no idea where that 4" pipe goes but it took every bit of water without filling up. More research needed...

Yeah, they did do a nice job.

They left the driveway 3/4" high at the street to cover the next asphalt topping on the street. FWIW, the concrete at the street is probably 7-8" deep.

Well i hope the rain didn't do any damage to the finish, or the standing water at the swale, and the first 10 feet of drive at street side has to be 6 inches thick, and the balance whatever thickness your having put in.