[JustAHack]

I bought a small cottage on a lake. When ripping out the old kitchen floor, I found a surprise under the kitchen tile subfloor. A hole in the main subfloor.

Would this be carpenter ants or termites?

There is a large dead tree next to the house.

I found the saw dust in an adjacent wall. It is interesting as it does not look like there is damage to the wall.

How would I know if they (termites or carpenter ants) are still active? Should I see them?

 

[oh'mike]

That is not like any carpenter ant damage that I have ever seen----my guess--termites.

Let's see what others have to say--We don't see termite damage very often in this area.

 

[goobertime]

do you see any mud trails up anyplace? thats what termites travel in.. check out this link.. http://inspectapedia.com/structure/Termite_Damage.htm

 

[Nik333]

I saw a lot of termites in Hawaii. You can follow up from the pile of droppings on the ground, that can look like coarse dust, light or dark, up to a pinhole in the wood. You can actually see the tiny pieces as they push them out of the hole. If you dig in where the pinhole is, there should be pink bugs.

 

[Nik333]

 

[JustAHack]

I will check it out more tomorrow. The house is on footings... So I would suspect I should be able to see mud tubes. Thanks for the suggestions. More pics to tomorrow. Here is a bigger pic of the prior pic.

 

[ddawg16]

Depends on where you are....here in CA they just live in the wood.

That is termite damage....you will typically see what looks like fine sand close to where they are eating.

 

[Gymschu]

+1 on Termites. The scary part is that the damage you see may be only a FRACTION of the damage done to that wall.

Case in point, I was scraping paint on a century old home and the HO stated that the house had been treated for carpenter ants by a nat'l bug control company. Anyway, long story short, as I scraped loose paint, damage became more and more evident. Ants aren't white and in the end, they had to replace the whole side of their house with new siding.

 

[JustAHack]

how do I determine if termites are still active? Pull the affected wood out and see if I see any?

I am in Massachusetts. The cottage was built in the 1930s I think. As best I can tell it was rehabbed in 1990. During which time they re-studded the walls as the walls prev had a couple verticals studs about 6' apart connected by horizontal 2x4s. I included an interesting pic of the framing.

I pulled down all the Sheetrock. So I can easily see inside the wall cavities. There is insulation covered by a plastic vapor barrier. I didn't pull off the plastic and pull out the insulation yet. I did see saw dust on the insulation side of the vapor barrier so I am hoping it is not all eaten up.

I assume what I have to do is get a company in to spray it all down? Should I remove the affected wood or just re-build over the damaged wood- within reason. I plan to cut open/out this floor tomorrow.

 

[JustAHack]

Pic of the most impressive framing

 

[Nik333]

how do I determine if termites are still active? Pull the affected wood out and see if I see any?

That seems the best way. You might be able to see them working, like I said, but if you SEE them, all the better. I think they still tent for termites, but I'm not an expert. That one scalloped part right between the wood knots really looks like termite work. Sorry!

Actually, now I see your boots, it's the area right above your right boot. Classic. IMO.

 

[Gymschu]

Yes, pull some more of the affected wood out. You won't have any trouble finding them if it's still an active colony. Those little white buggers are everywhere. Also, they must have moisture to continue doing there thing, so if you find wet wood, more than likely it's infested with termites.

 

[JustAHack]

I was at the house today, but did not get to pull out the insulation or cut out the affected section of the floor. I did move a ton on old water logged and rotting wood (from a tree) from next to the house. There was some plywood under the house too... Some of it came out as thin wafers. There are certainly other sections of flooring that has been consumed by the critters. I wnot be at the house until next weekend... So I will post more info next weekend.

 

[JustAHack]

So... I did more exploring... I found some active carpenter ants in the subfloor and oak flooring... But no termites. No tunnels either. Maybe it was the cold weather and they will come out more now that it is warmer. I do need to get the area treated as there is a dead tree next to the house. There was a ton of insulation under the house between the floor joists, I removed all that and really no damage that I could find. There was a lot of rotten wood under the house, so I removed all that. Big sign of relief!

 

[noquacks]

One way to find out (although I think it is termites) is like members posted above look for pellets (poop). Another way is if there is NO dampness/water damage/water intrusion, likely termites cuz C ants like damp wood- easier to carve out tunnels/galleys. termites just like wood period.

 

[noquacks]

I have seen subterraneans damage 2x4's with out any dampness, but rarely C ants attack hard dry wood.

 

[jimn]

Sure looks like termites. Termites don't need wer wood. Termites are in your wood to eat and can not be exposed to light. Carpenter ants don't was the wood rather they build a nest and eat elsewhere. Carpenter ants prefer moist wood which is easier for them to chew through. You will often see saw dust like substance with carpenter ants.

 

[noquacks]

Sure looks like termites. Termites don't need wer wood. Termites are in your wood to eat and can not be exposed to light. Carpenter ants don't was the wood rather they build a nest and eat elsewhere. Carpenter ants prefer moist wood which is easier for them to chew through. You will often see saw dust like substance with carpenter ants.

Right- and also, sometimes C ants are a blessing cuz they will be visible so you can be alarmed such that say, you have a roof leak, which then can be repaired. The wood was damaged anyway from moisture, so its not like they did any "damage".

ALSO, BONUS- c ANTS LIKE TO ATTACK/EAT TERMITES, AND SO THEY CAN ACTUALLY BE YOUR FRIEND. bELIEVE IT OR NOT.

 

[Nik333]

You may have noticed that I said termites are pink & another says white. It may depend on type & what they eat. Here's a great gallery of photos of different stages of development.

http://insects.about.com/od/termites/ig/Termites/Subterranean-Termites.htm#step-heading

 

[cibula11]

Usually termites don't start in the middle of a wall like that. If it is termites, you will find mud trails, even if they have been gone for years. Are you sure it's an insect? I could see a squirrel or something rodent-like doing damage like this too and then have insects add to the problem later. Sill plates and top plates on walls are suspect places to look.