[jmr106]

House was built in 1950. My parents bought the house in '79. Inspector was a big fail and missed a lot. FHA made the former owners dig out the crawlspace and move the gas water heater from in the kitchen down to the crawlspace. Former owners dug out this hole in the crawlspace. Hole is about 15' long, roughly 4' wide and about 3.5' deep. Cinderblock retaining wall all the way around. Hot water heater at one end. Makeshift "open" sump at the lower end. No proper sump basin.

A couple of years ago, and HVAC company installed a furnace system in between the water heater and makeshift sump, which is inviting disaster. It is elevated on some kind of stryofoam-like blocks. When it rains a lot (usually 2+ days of moderate to heavy rain), water rushes in due to it being below ground level and/or a higher water table in the area. I added a second pump a couple of years ago and put in temporary wood bracing until I could figure out how to fix it. That 1/2HP and 1/3HP combined, I have seen them barely keep up with the heavy flows after a 3-4 day rain. They pump about 100GPM combined and a few times have barely been able to keep the water from going out of the sump hole.

She wants to sell the house by the end of the year. My goal to fix this is to try to get an HVAC company to change this install and flip it horizontal to hang it from the floor joists. The water heater will be converter to an external on the outside of the brick house. Hole will be filled with some kind of crushed gravel/rock nearly to the top of the blocks, a proper enclosed sump basin installed, upgraded pipes and submersible pumps.

My main question: How much is it likely to cost to get them to hang this unit from the floor joists? My common sense tells me that the ducts will end up being different lengths and may need to be changed, electrical rewired to accomodate the new position, some stuff changed around on the machine, etc. Is it even possible? I see no other option in this case. I just know that I want it out of that hole. There's nowhere else to put it. All vents are coming up from the crawlspace through the floors, anyway. I was hoping that maybe someone in the HVAC community would be able to comment on this. It is a disaster, I already know. I wish they would have never bought this house. lain:

I have a photo of the basement setup, but it won't let me post it.

While curious, I popped the cover off from the furnace. I see a big chart on the side that says "Minimum clearances from combustible material for upflow or horizontal closet or attic installation" and it lists a lot of the model numbers and such. So presumably, it is horizontal capable.

Any advice/ideas?

 

[SeniorSitizen]

Cost is impossible to obtain information on a forum and getting local bids is nearly always recommended. Re grading the soil surrounding the structure to deter water infiltration may be less expensive.

But to answer the subject question, yes it's possible as long as the codes are met.

 

[Technow]

No new advice, just the same advice you were given 2 months ago on another forum.

No problem to move horizontal....but the upflow coil on the furnace has to be replaced to a horizontal model....so it you are looking for this cost only a couple of hundred bucks-ain't gonna happen. I would look at the venting also, looks like from the 2 month old pics there might be issues there.

 

[jimn]

I would Not likely buy place with a basement water problem like that anyway . My mother in law lived a real rundown place that had horizontal furnace hung under the floor as water literally flowed through the basement. The moisture caused mold, mildew, promoted a healthy spider population etc. the furnace would rust out ever 5 or 6 years . No thanks. I never want those problems again. She eventually saved enough sh ripped it down and built new. The proper solution is to fix the water problem or sell the place at enough of discount the buyer can fix the water issue.

 

[yuri]

If she is selling the place at the end of the year why bother doing anything?

Sell it as is. Doubt you will get your money back and someone will buy it as is if other houses in the area have the same setup.

 

[jmr106]

Cost is impossible to obtain information on a forum and getting local bids is nearly always recommended. Re grading the soil surrounding the structure to deter water infiltration may be less expensive.

But to answer the subject question, yes it's possible as long as the codes are met.

I looked into that, and also the general waterproofing of the basement. For the particular house size, while small, it is upwards of $15,000 to waterproof the basement. A closer estimate was to be around $20,000 to $25,000, which I have deemed to be not worth it at all to do.

 

[jmr106]

No new advice, just the same advice you were given 2 months ago on another forum.

No problem to move horizontal....but the upflow coil on the furnace has to be replaced to a horizontal model....so it you are looking for this cost only a couple of hundred bucks-ain't gonna happen. I would look at the venting also, looks like from the 2 month old pics there might be issues there.

I've spent the time since then saving money and preparing for the project, trying to get used to everything that I will need to get to make the changes, etc. Usually around April/May, we start clocking 16 hours of voluntary overtime for most of the rest of the year. We haven't started doing that, and I have saved about $3,500 so far towards the project.

It looks like the average cost for one of those horizontal coils averages about $500 new, but possibly could be a little more through the company.

Total project cost...I'm estimating somewhere around $5,000 to $6,000 for everything the way I want it to be. I can't do the electrical, HVAC or water heater work. However, I can put in the gravel, sump basin, pumps and new piping.

The only place that water is coming into the basement is through the dug out hole. There was a question of the basement door having a little water going underneath it, but I have decided to build a ledge under the door that rises a few inches and just build a new basement door that is a little shorter. Problem solved for that.

The goal is that when I am done, everything will be sealed and contained with no water issues and far less (and perhaps not any) water flow anymore, but I'm putting the sump system there just in case. We get hurricanes that hit the coast and have downgraded to tropical storms by the time they reach us, but they tend to cause power issues sometimes, so I'd rather have all of this fixed before that starts again in the late spring/early summer.

 

[jmr106]

If she is selling the place at the end of the year why bother doing anything?

Sell it as is. Doubt you will get your money back and someone will buy it as is if other houses in the area have the same setup.

The goal is to sell before the end of the year. Whether it will truly happen or not is unknown, but it will be attempted anyway. Either way, I'm planning to fix it regardless. I'd like to not have to say, "You know, there's this big open hole in the basement that gets lots of water flow." Instead, I'd rather be able to say, "It had issues in the past with water flow, but it is all contained in a closed sump and there are no water issues now". It may or may not add to the value, but it will keep it from dropping. Oddly enough, most of the houses have had people do their own things. For some, the water heater went outside in a little building. For others, it is still in the house in a room or closet. Others built and entire back room for it.

 

[yuri]

It is admirable you want to fix it but any real estate agent will tell you to sell it as is. People won't give you a dime extra for repairs and you will get whatever the average value for that house is on the street.

I am sure people buying it will see the condition of the hole and it is a buyer beware world. However someone will get a nicer house but you may not get the value.

I would talk to some local real estate agents to see if it is worthwhile. It may be a long year for her and less hassle if it is fixed. However it may be cheaper to buy new sump pumps to get by.

 

[jmr106]

I'm going to get an estimate from the company that installed it and see what they say. System is only about 2 years old and this option to hang it wasn't even mentioned at all for some reason. Kind of annoying to say the least. I still have a remaining free spring check-up, so they're due to come out soon and will be here already, anyway.