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Is DIY solar popular?

10K views 51 replies 17 participants last post by  dgghostkilla 
#1 ·
Hello!

I am a solar enthusiast who also likes to work on new solar solutions.

It seems to me that DIY solar isn't really mainstream because of:
1. Permitting
2. Intimidation of doing the work yourself
3. Electrical wiring
4. Structural engineering

I was envisioning a product that would use flexible lightweight solar panels, it can be directly adhered to some type of UV resistive fabric, and just simply tie the system down through some holes penetrating on the eaves of the home. (No penetration directly over the living space of the home).

Based on my calculation, many jurisdictions will forego the structural engineering if it's 4 lbs/ ft2. This product should meet that, which means cost savings.

And no racking, no rails means that you can install it yourself in under 2 hours ( i've been playing around with it already).

However, it's unclear to me how to market this product?

Is DIY solar kits popular? Why or why not?

-Andrew
 
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#9 ·
After talking to a lot of "Solar Companies", i decided to install my very own System.
They wanted to charge me around $32000.-- to $40.000. for a 8 KW System.

Since my Roof is pretty new, installed in 2013, i decided to do it myself.
I got my trusty Roofer with me, and a certified Electrician.
I did all the Research, got the Parts, applied for the Permit, had the Design done, etc. Took me a while, but it was worth it.

The Result is a 12 KW System, producing more power than I ever need and is fully paid for.
Here is a Drone Video of the finished project:



And it cost me a fraction of what those Solar Companies would have charged me.
:plain:
 
#11 ·
They wanted to charge me around $32000.-- to $40.000. for a 8 KW System.

The Result is a 12 KW System, producing more power than I ever need and is fully paid for.

And it cost me a fraction of what those Solar Companies would have charged me.
12 KW is a lot of solar panels...:)

Are you in Cali.....the trees and neighborhood remind me of the area.
OK........I see it now........Long Beach, CA.

Do you get reimbursed for the extra you produce?

How much did it finally cost you...did you buy a kit or research everything and buy it piecemeal?

Nice job.
 
#42 · (Edited)
I saw this online today and thought about this thread.......


A company is designing a liquid that is applied to standard windows to create solar energy.

If you’re searching for the solar panel of the future, why not consider those created by the aptly-named SolarWindow Technologies, which transform regular windows into photovoltaics, capable of producing 50 times greater electrical energy than rooftop panels, when modeled for a 50-story building.

more..........

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/solar-windows-50-times-more-effective/



And this company makes solar panels that blend in with the environment. Their panels are more attractive than the standard black ones. The solar panels we are used to remind me of Henry Ford......'you can get a Model T in any color as long as it is black'.... these people have the right idea.

----
If you wouldn't buy solar panels because you think they're ugly, Sistine Solar might have the solution to saving you money and energy.

If you feel like solar panels break the lines of your home’s aesthetic, or think that covering your roof in solar cells is a waste of advertising space, Sistine Solar’s new solar skins could be what you’re looking for. They let you make your rooftop panels look like whatever you want, without much impact on efficiency.

more.........
http://www.digitaltrends.com/home/sistine-solar-skins/



It's changes like this.......chemical additives to standard glass, attractive panels that blend in to the home and Tesla's new shingles; that are going to make solar grow. It's just as important as increasing the efficiency.

Just my .02.
 

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#4 ·
I see a number of problems wih your idea.

Flexible panels are lower yield than traditional panels. Right now you are talking about 1/3 to 1/2 the power per square foot as compared to rigid panels. When you combine that with the fact that only about 1/2 the roof may have favorable exposure, you are significantly reducing the the generation.

I am not sure how you are planning to allow for roof access. There are setback requirements from the ridge and edges of the roof.

How long do you expect that UV resistant fabric to last? Especially in good solar regions, the fabric will fail before the life expectancy of the panels.

Moisture trapping under the fabric during wet seasons could cause rot that may shorten that life even further.

Your plan to drill holes thru the eaves is an open invitation to causing rot in the sheathing. If there are soffits under the eaves, you would be admitting water to the attic.

What other tie downs/roof attachments to you have in mind to meet high wind requirements ? (There is more to engineering than just the weight of the product)

Racks are more than just a structural tie down. By changing the angle of the panel relative to the roof slope and/or rotating the panels towards the sun, you can fine tune the performance of the panels.

Racks also allow you to shift the panels around on the roof as you go from one roof shape to another on different houses. You can also shift locations on similar houses to allow for things that may be optional like chimneys, skylights, etc.
How does your idea support these needs. Will each kit be custom built for the roof it going on ?
 
#24 ·
Craig,
It is not just the Kickback from the Power Company, I am saving $275/month in Energy Cost.
I own my own Computer Business and run it from my Home.
The First Year the Power Company owes me around $800.
(squat?)
The next Year might be more, because of added Panels.
I figured about 4-5 Years until I break even.
Today, for example, I produced some 40 KWh as we speak.
Triple that in the Summer months.
In a full Year I did 12 Megawatts. That is a lot of Juice.


The only thing I regret is that I didn’t do it earlier.
One thing I might add in the next few years is a whole House Battery, such as the Tesla-Wall.
But I’m waiting for the LG-Chem, which is widely sold in Europe and Australia.
 
#5 ·
Is DIY solar kits popular? Why or why not?

The sub set of people skilled enough to DIY their own roof top solar power system is so small, I am sure you could make more money selling pencils in front of your local grocery store.

I know the technology is better now, but when I priced up a system about 15 years ago, the ROI was 15 to 20 years and that included 50% cost subsidies from state and Fed gov't.
I am all for efficiency and energy reducing technology as long as it cost justifies and actually saves $ within a reasonable amount of time and not financed on the backs of other tax paying citizens. Is this technology there yet?


What is the ROI of the system you plan to install? Any subsidies?
 
#7 ·
Solar products in general tend to be expensive so it's a bit more of a daunting task to DIY in case something goes wrong, and all warranties would most likely be void. I've been toying about it for a while myself. I would probably end up getting a company to install racking on the roof so I don't have to worry about roof penetrations, but then I'd do the rest myself like the actual panel install, electrical, battery bank etc. Honestly, water scares me more than electricity. I will tend to avoid anything to do with roofing, but I'll do electrical without even thinking twice about it.

Though one of the issues too is how some cities are really nazi about permits and stuff, and solar is kinda hard to hide.
 
#8 ·
I was envisioning a product that would use flexible lightweight solar panels, it can be directly adhered to some type of UV resistive fabric, and just simply tie the system down through some holes penetrating on the eaves of the home. (No penetration directly over the living space of the home).
That sounds like a good idea but a bit late. TESLA is introducing solar shingles this year and that will probably be the new trend. Solar Panels are heavy and unsightly. The solar shingles being introduced are designed to replace traditional shingles and still produce electricity.

I think that is the new trend...... designing solar panels to blend into the environment.


https://www.tesla.com/solar


 
#13 ·
I think Lowes and Costco sold DIY solar power kits at one time. Not sure if they still do.

In order to get permits and an approved solar power installation, the materials need to be UL (Or another laboratory) listed and approved for the purpose. You will need to pay for this testing and approval.

The installation will need to conform to local building and electrical codes, which the average DIYer has limited knowledge of. Also working on a roof is dangerous. Companies that do work on roofs are required to follow OSHA guidelines for safety.
 
#20 ·
Solar voltaic shingles sound promising but I would think it will take a while for them to obtain approval and even longer to gain acceptance. Consumers will have to be convinced that they will be durable.

The advantages of solar power fall off quickly as your latitude moves north since the sun's energy is much weaker during the winter months, no to mention periods when the roof/panels are covered in snow.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Solar voltaic shingles sound promising but I would think it will take a while for them to obtain approval and even longer to gain acceptance. Consumers will have to be convinced that they will be durable.

The advantages of solar power fall off quickly as your latitude moves north since the sun's energy is much weaker during the winter months, no to mention periods when the roof/panels are covered in snow.
It won't take any longer for them to get approval than any other solar panel.
I think it was GAF that sold solar shingles up to a couple of years ago . But they stopped selling them. I think they were too early to the market.

If Elon Musk can invent PayPal, build a car from nothing to world class in 3 years and put a rocket into space; he can get approval for a roofing shingle.

You are right, they do become less efficient, so the answer to that is store up excess energy with a Tesla battery and add more shingles to your house to make up for less efficiencies. It costs .32 KWH for electricity in Alaska and Hawaii. At those prices for electricity, solar panels are competitive.
 
#27 ·
1MW = 1000 KW = 1000000 W

IF 250 W MODULES are used

THEN no of modules = 1000000W / 250 =4000 modules

GENERALLY 1 250 W MODULE OCCUPIES 1.6 SQM OF AREA ,SO

1.6 Sq m * 4000 = 6400 sqm

THIS IS JUST THE AREA OF THE PANELS .YOU need to take into consideration the extra area required for spacing between panels to prevent shadowing on panels.
 
#29 ·
just a little info. this is a 20MW system that I bid, and my company recently finished. There is no feasible way your 40 panels produce anywhere near 12MW. just sayin. Im not trying to piss you off, just setting things straight, as you said, for future DIYers. you dont want to mislead them...
 

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#37 ·
Battery banks complicate the heck out of a solar system.
The first thing is, if you already have solar, it is probably a grid tie only inverter. You would need to replace the inverter with a grid tie battery back up type.

Batteries take space, preferably in properly vented battery boxes or battery rooms.

Batteries take maintanance. For a flooded lead acid types, at least once a month.

Your battery life is most likely to be shorter than your panel life. It varies from 4-8 years for golf cart type batteries to 18-24 years for premium industrial class batteries. Both of those assume proper sizing, operation and maintanance.

On the other hand, I know people that have killed their battery bank in less than a year. How many times are you going to spend that $8,000 ? Or possibly more ?

What rolling blackouts are you talking about ? Are they the projected ones for SoCal as a result of the Porter Ranch gas leak ? If that's the reason, I would re-evaluate it. Loosing power for a few hours, perhaps 14 times this summer isn't that big of a problem. If you are worried about the refrigerator/AC, a generator can handle that.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Batteries take maintanance. For a flooded lead acid types, at least once a month.

Your battery life is most likely to be shorter than your panel life. It varies from 4-8 years for golf cart type batteries to 18-24 years for premium industrial class batteries. Both of those assume proper sizing, operation and maintanance.

On the other hand, I know people that have killed their battery bank in less than a year. How many times are you going to spend that $8,000 ? Or possibly more ?
If you're having to add electrolyte to the batteries every month you're probably overcharging them. Idealy you want to keep them within 20-25C and charge them at 2.25v per cell (ex: 54v for a 48v bank). Proper maintenance is key. They will do fine at lower temps but you may need to increase charging voltage. There's various charts etc to go by. Probably want to equalize every now and then too.

Personally what I'd probably do is start with a cheaper bank, like 8 Canadian Tire brand 12v batteries (2 strings of 48v) then once I have my usage pattern/maintenance/alarming etc in a row, I would add a more expensive battery bank.

Midpoint voltage alarm is a good idea too, as it can detect early thermal run away or other cell issues. What sucks about getting a bad cell though is that by the time it happens they might not make that particular cell anymore, so now your whole string is pooched as you won't be able to find a matching replacement. You want all the same amp hour rating for the batteries in a given string.

It's crossed my mind to go the DIY route for the batteries, but no idea where you'd even get the raw materials for that. For the containers could probably use mason jars with plastic caps and drill out terminals, but for the actual lead or the acid I doubt it's something you can just buy.
 
#40 ·
I think it was GAF that sold solar shingles up to a couple of years ago . But they stopped selling them. I think they were too early to the market.
Yes, and Dow also got out of the business last year.

The market has been small. There were some people willing to buy them just to avoid the look of solar panels. The others that bought were forced to by HOA's that had no panel rules.

We will see if Tesla can do better.
 
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