DIY Home Improvement Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Morning everyone, I just got a quote from a hardwood installer and he came in at $6/sq/ft for hardwood and $3.25/sq/ft for tile. We already have our hardwood and Tiles and thinset all the installer is supplying is underlay for the hardwood and nails. We are in Central alberta just outside of red deer, Does this seem like high pricing to anyone else? Oh ya, all the tiles are 12"x12" ceramic. Thank you for any input.
 

·
Tileguy
Joined
·
6,050 Posts
Bronco,

I know it's was early when you posted the question...but. It might help to know if the size of the job is a few hundred or a few thousand sq. ft. Over what kind of floors. On first floor or upstairs. The specified type of wood and what kind of of tile, like regular 12" ceramic, porcelain or natural stone or?

I can easily tell you that $3.25 for ceramic if cheap unless it's a large job in a wide open room. What was the other quote you have received?

Jaz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Sorry guys

Sorry about that, our house is a 4 level split with around 600sq/ft per floor. 3 rooms and a bath upstairs, 1 room main floor with tile going in kitchen and at 2 entry doors, 2 rooms on 3rd level with 300 per room with tile at entry door, and the basement which is concrete with 2 bedrooms and a bath and laundry storage area. Basement bath is going to be tile on the floor 65sq/ft and tile tub surround. The 3 other floors are 3/4 osb t&g. Hope I didn't confuse ya'll but hope that helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Unless you have a lot of odd angles in your home, or are asking for a special installation with the hardwood (ie. herringbone), $6/sq ft is WAY over the top. In Ontario the going rate is $2-3.50 depending on where you live. Honestly, $6 is insane for a straight forward hardwood install.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks

Thanks for the reply. We had thought the guy had his prices backwards $6 for tile and $3.25 for hardwood but nope that was what he had said. Yup all the guys that we have got quotes from since have been between $2.75 - $3.35sq/ft for hardwood and the tile is all over the map, from $2.75 up to $8.00sq/ft. And no there isn't a whole bunch of angles there is one 3/4 octagon in the kitchen but that is it.
 

·
Tileguy
Joined
·
6,050 Posts
OK, the hardwood labor is pretty cut n dry and we can't help much on that. But the info you gave about the tile installation needs clarification.

The ranges of $2.75 - $8.00 is not correct. No way that is for installing tiles using the same method. :eek:The lower price is for just the installation of your tiles. The $8.00, I am positive, includes the cement backer too, and all labor of course....right? You do know that you don't want tile set direct on plywood, don't you?:whistling2:

Jaz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
No I didn't know that. I know it is alright to install directly on concrete isnt it, but I thought you could use plywood on top of o.s.b subfloor and go ahead with the tiling.
 

·
Tileguy
Joined
·
6,050 Posts
It's done that way all the time.....but we call those guys HACKS! :censored:

How was the 8 buck guy doing it?

Jaz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Hey Jazz. the $8 guy was going to use ditra on the bathroom floor and kerdi on the walls in the bathroom. Is it neccesary to apply the ditra on the o.s.b. subfloor. On the quote there is 3 sheets of 1/2" plywood, I would imagine that is for the floors on the o.s.b. subfloor. Can you fill me in on why you don't use the plywood so I can ask the guy a few questions to see if he is really as good as he is charging for. Thanks Jazz.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,145 Posts
do you want your bathroom/shower to last 50 years, or 10? this is the difference between ditra/kerdi and no proper underlay. here you see the reflection of the quotes.

it would be helpful if your contractors explained WHY they do it in such a way so you can better understand where the costs are coming from. then you can ask the low price guy "why are you NOT doing it this way".

Knucklez
 

·
Tileguy
Joined
·
6,050 Posts
Plywood shrinks & expands all the time and is not a very good way to go. It can work in some cases if everything is done just right and if the wood never gets wet. In most cases you either have to add a second sheet of plywood anyway, so why spend $$$ on ply when a CBU or membrane such as Ditra is so much better? You sometimes have to do both, when the subfloor is not adequate.

Without reading the entire thread again, which wouldn't help that much anyway because labor costs are relative to where you are, (ask our Chinese friend where a low-level office worker with a degree makes about $265 USD per month and of course works 6 days a week).

I would say Ditra installed in a good size area is worth about $3.00 a sq. ft. (I'm getting less right now, but that's a different story). I charge more for Kerdi installed because it's smaller areas and more difficult to work with.

In a perfect world $8 per sq. ft. for labor and CBU or Ditra is not too much. Heck, Lowes charges $12.59 with 1/4" CBU and standard labor for tile, and tell you the truth, I wouldn't trust most of their guys to tile a dog house. :no:

Has anyone checked the framing and spans to verify the subfloor system is stiff enough for tiles?

Ditra or CBU over 3/4" OSB meets minimun requirements fot the subfloor, but adding the 1/2" ply is better. Sounds like your tile-guy is a keeper! :thumbsup:

Jaz
 

·
Tileguy
Joined
·
10,705 Posts
our house is a 4 level split with around 600sq/ft per floor. 3 rooms and a bath upstairs, 1 room main floor with tile going in kitchen and at 2 entry doors, 2 rooms on 3rd level with 300 per room with tile at entry door, and the basement which is concrete with 2 bedrooms and a bath and laundry storage area. Basement bath is going to be tile on the floor 65sq/ft and tile tub surround.
bronco2,
You had better grab that installer at those prices and be glad you have him. Yours is one of the more chopped up jobs around.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
I can't really comment on the hardwood prices, but I'm in Calgary and have just had quotes on tiling the walls around my tub in my bathroom. Last time I got quotes was 3 years ago during the boom and it was insane and basically hopeless getting trades. Since I had heard we were in a recession and things would be better I went at it again...apparently the media is exaggerating again. I've been quoted as high as $100/sq ft. with me supplying the tiles and having the cement board up. Now I am sure that was a PITA quote since a lot of these guys still do not want to work for homeowners if they can still do new construction but I have still found prices to be varying wildly. I imagine Red Deer is somewhat the same.

With this last batch of estimates (done in the past 2 weeks) they went from $4 to $30/sq ft . Same deal, all they have to do is tile with what I have, all prep is done. All you can do is keep asking for referrals from people you know or stores you can trust until you find someone you are sure can do the job properly. I got some referrals from flooring stores, tiles shops, and other tradespeople. This time I took a huge leap of faith and went with the $4/sq. ft. barely speaks English guy who told me 'no pay if no like' and was free to work the next day (normally that would have scared me but I am so sick of seeing no tile I just went with it) and he did a perfect job. I think I got lucky there and would have to say he is not typical. You are using larger tiles than I was so that is less cuts and generally less work so that does effect price.

Also, it's really important to make sure your subfloors will take that tile. Plywood just won't cut it I'm afraid. All I have heard and learned says it flexes too much and you are going to end up with cracked grout and tiles in a couple of years if not sooner. You have to have someone who measures your joists and knows the tiles you have (size matters here.. a lot because the bigger the tile the more solid the floor must be) to see what subfloor you need. If you just use wood in your bathroom you also have to worry about moisture which is why something like cement board is usually put down.

If you can hear the floor creak or feel it flex at all walking on it, tile isn't going to hold. If vinyl was down before, that's the wrong subfloor for tile. Same for the wood, it takes a different subfloor than carpet so make sure whoever you hire checks that stuff out. If they don't you are dealing with a hack. Your basement should be okay with tile (although it may be cold if you tile right on top of concrete...might want to consider underfloor heating there).

Now I will also tell you I cheated with my bathroom floor and so far (3 years) so good. My bathroom had vinyl flooring that I pulled and the subfloor is not the right stuff for tile at all. Worse is it's a type of MDF which is quite stupid in a bathroom, and no way suitable for tile. I knew if I was to save myself some grief I would have to go with the smallest tile possible so I went with .75" hex. A tile store gave me the cheat method and that was applying something similar to Detra which is waterproof and has a fiber coating that helps the adhesive work better. I had to put a lot of screws in the floor to make sure it was as solid as possible first. Anyway, I did that and so far, no problems at all. Had I used a larger tile I suspect they would all be in a pile in the corner of the yard by now so that is why I mentioned size of tile being such a big consideration and 12 X 12 tiles are considered pretty big in the scheme of things.

Just a word on the wood. If the wood flooring you purchased has a warranty on it, look on the box for warranty info. There should also be a logo from a wood flooring organization that monitors all wood floors (I can't remember their name off hand right now but their logo usually appears on the box or papers that come with the wood). I know it's there because I had a huge problem in a brand new house I had and they helped me get it replaced. The key here is finding their site and you will see that most warranties will not be honoured unless you get a certified (by them or the manufacturer) installer. So if the wood ends up defective as mine was and you didn't have a certified installer, no warranty. Believe me, trying to get those folks to back up their products is quite a task so you want all your bases covered by checking the fine print. Mine looked great initially but within a couple of months the finish started coming off and it took a year of the builder and I going after them to get it taken out. Just a bad batch from an otherwise reputable mfg. So check your boxes and the mfg site especially for the small print on the warranty. The mfg site is probably the easiest way to find their installers too as they should list them or have a number you can call to get the names.

I wish you luck. It's really frustrating in AB to know what prices are doing since the trades still seem to have the upper hand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Thaks for the reply's guys, I have got a few more quotes as high as $12sq/ft. Maybe I'll just D.I.M.(DO IT MYSELF). Thanks again.
 

·
Tileguy
Joined
·
10,705 Posts
Dusty,

Why is it you are a professional on flooring installations but don't have the balls to fill out your own profile?
No legitimate professional installer would waste his time offering-up a phony estimate if he had plenty of any kind of work. I suspect there is more to your needs than you are telling us.


Same deal, all they have to do is tile with what I have, all prep is done.
Therein may lie the answer to the higher estimates you are getting. I suspect your prep work is substandard and no one wants to deal with it. The high estimates account for fixing the things you have screwed up.:)


You are using larger tiles than I was so that is less cuts and generally less work so that does effect price.
That statement right there shows ignorance of the tasks at hand. Nothing could be further from the truth my friend.

Plywood just won't cut it I'm afraid. All I have heard and learned says it flexes too much
More nonsense, that's NOT WHY plywood is undesireable.


the bigger the tile the more solid the floor must be
Simply not true, not at all true.


Same for the wood, it takes a different subfloor than carpet so make sure whoever you hire checks that stuff out.
Makes me smile.:):yes::)


Your basement should be okay with tile
Based on what?

Now I will also tell you I cheated with my bathroom floor and so far (3 years) so good. My bathroom had vinyl flooring that I pulled and the subfloor is not the right stuff for tile at all. Worse is it's a type of MDF which is quite stupid in a bathroom, and no way suitable for tile. I knew if I was to save myself some grief I would have to go with the smallest tile possible so I went with .75" hex.
Words of a true HACK.:yes:

and 12 X 12 tiles are considered pretty big in the scheme of things
BULL DROPPINGS. That just simply isn't true either. What a crock of nonsense.:)


There should also be a logo from a wood flooring organization that monitors all wood floors (I can't remember their name off hand right now but their logo usually appears on the box or papers that come with the wood).
There's a wood flooring organization that monitors all wood floors?????
...and whom might that be?


The key here is finding their site and you will see that most warranties will not be honoured unless you get a certified (by them or the manufacturer) installer.
BALONEY!!! All manufacturers offer their own warranty. No organization is going to warrant the goods of any manufacturer.

It's really frustrating in AB to know what prices are doing since the trades still seem to have the upper hand.
That'll be the day!:)

Ignorance is certainly bliss.:yes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
174 Posts
Dusty,
Why is it you are a professional on flooring installations but don't have the balls to fill out your own profile?
No legitimate professional installer would waste his time offering-up a phony estimate if he had plenty of any kind of work. I suspect there is more to your needs than you are telling us.
Where did that quote come from? Sure wasn't me. Nor did I ever claim to be a professional. I was relaying what I have learned over the past few years as a homeowner (and one who happens to have 18 years of 4 houses being updated to tell you I am not completely clueless). I didn't presume to represent anything but what I have found here and here is about a 1.5 hr drive from where the OP is living so pretty similar situations. I can tell you for absolute sure, a legitimate professional installer will do PITA quotes. Even a contractor I had working here was complaining to his trades about them giving PITA quotes vs just being honest enough to say they didn't want/need to do small jobs. It's called appearing to be willing while preferring to take easier or larger jobs and not having the jam to just say so. Some will say so and I totally respect that but others won't using the PITA to get them of the hook instead.


Therein may lie the answer to the higher estimates you are getting. I suspect your prep work is substandard and no one wants to deal with it. The high estimates account for fixing the things you have screwed up.:)
Your suspicions are quite incorrect I'm afraid as I had a very reputable contractor do all the prep including putting in all the durarock and red guard and he made sure it is all straight, plumb, and everything else. Those walls were knocked right back to the studs just to make sure it was right. As a matter of fact he is one of the contractors that usually only does the nice high priced jobs but since he's a friend of a friend he offered to help me out trying to get this little bathroom done and even he just couldn't get a tiler to come in within reason.

He himself was more than miffed at the trades he normally uses wasting everyone's time by doing PITA quotes. The tiler I did have do the work had no complaints at all and was actually very impressed given we are dealing with a 70 year old house here and all that means when it comes to walls not being close to straight any longer. The others who quoted also had no issues with the prep. So I have not screwed anything up (nor am I difficult to deal with or late in paying or any other excuse you might be able to come up with). Thank you very much for passing judgment without just asking politely.:furious:

You are using larger tiles than I was so that is less cuts and generally less work so that does effect price.
That statement right there shows ignorance of the tasks at hand. Nothing could be further from the truth my friend.
Well maybe your guys are different than the ones around here but they all tell me the smaller the tiles, the more cutting and work they have to do and one quoted me $400 less (and that included the price of the new tiles in that quote) if I would use 12X12 tiles just to save him some work (his words). Believe me, I have had to listen to the whining these guys come up with when faced with using subway tiles. I can't imagine where that logic isn't working for you given it takes more effort/time to lay tiles which require 8/sq. ft than 1. Give me a break please for knowing something of what I speak. This isn't my first time nor am I someone who doesn't thoroughly research things before either doing them or having them done.


More nonsense, that's NOT WHY plywood is undesireable....
For that and the rest of your quips that followed, I'm not going to bother. Go to the John Bridge forum and see how many professional tilers comment on just these things.


There's a wood flooring organization that monitors all wood floors?????
...and whom might that be?...
BALONEY!!! All manufacturers offer their own warranty. No organization is going to warrant the goods of any manufacturer.
Yes there is. Look them up. They are the overseers of all the wood warranties. The mfg has their own warranty and these industry folks know all about them and act as mediators and as an information source for both suppliers and customers. They have a site and a phone number and everything you need to know about the various wood companies, standards for warranties and installations. Their info is good for the US and Canada. I'm not looking for them for you since you seem to believe you know better anyway and would rather knock me than go find out for yourself. I told you their logo is on the mfg warranty info.


It's really frustrating in AB to know what prices are doing since the trades still seem to have the upper hand.
That'll be the day!:)

Ignorance is certainly bliss.:yes:
Are you in Alberta? If so, your experience here would be worth hearing about. If you aren't here, you have no idea. There has been a shortage situation for all trades here for over 3 years now. AB is not like other places in N. America when it comes to this as it's been booming here over that period to the point of importing foreign workers by the boat load. It's been exactly that long since I have been attempting to have this and other jobs done in this house so if anyone can tell you what it's like here, I am one good source. In the past few years, unless you were building new homes or having a $M+ reno done (and no that isn't an exaggeration) you were not able to get trades and prices more than tripled for just about any job you can think of.

Even with the recent slowdowns we have experienced, most are still busy just playing catch up with all the jobs that didn't get done over that period. Add to that a recent tax incentive to do home repairs (a move to keep the construction folks and trades working as the slow down hit the rest of the country) and you still have a very busy bunch of trades people here. The ones who aren't busy are finally paying for being so arrogant or inflating their prices over the same period because a lot of people aren't calling them back. If you are here I suggest you make a few calls and see how the prices vary for the same jobs. If you aren't, you know not of what you speak when it comes to our local conditions. You can call it ignorance but I have the quotes to prove it and they range from $250 - $5000 for tiling around my shower, all prep done, tiles, grout and adhesive all supplied.

Meanwhile I'm not sure why you feel compelled to respond as you did rather than just asking for clarification. I'm not impressed with your judgmental comments when you don't have all the info you need to begin with. You could of just asked.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top