[jimfarwell]

In 2015 I built a barn, 24 ft by 40 ft, on my off-grid property. It's more-or-less pole-building style, my own design. I felled timber on the property, milled all my own lumber, dried it for three years before raising the barn, with sheet metal roof and sheet metal siding. I didn't build doors for the main opening (16 feet wide, 11 feet high). I wasn't worried about security, since you have to come six miles from the main road, the last mile and a half is a rocky farm road, and you have to come through two locked gates. It really is off the grid. I just used a heavy vinyl tarp hung from a cable to close up the opening for the winter.

Recently, however, things have convinced me I need doors. Best would be overlapping sliding doors, but for a variety of reasons, that option is out. So I'm left with swinging doors. The doors will be faced with sheet metal on a strong 2x4 frame with 3'x3' OSB corner gussets on the back (they provides lateral stability and help to alleviate the inevitable droop). From upper inside corner to lower outside corner I'm using a turnbuckle on 5/16" threaded rod, to take up any droop as it develops. Each door will weigh about 250 pounds, give or take 15 pounds. As the green lumber dries out, the weight will reduce, but still....

Every web search I make for heavy-duty barn-door hinges results in dainty designer hardware to hang what decorators call "rustic barn doors" for bedroom closets and living rooms...saints preserve us. I've found a few sites that sell real hinges, but not as big and beefy as what I want. I'm looking for square 6 by 6 butt-hinges, zinc-plated steel, preferably 3/16", but 1/8" would do. Minimum weight rating of at least 300 pounds each.

Does anyone have a good source for the hinges I've described, or something similar?

 

[Nealtw]

Have you thought about gate hinges.

 

[cmwhitmoyer]

Are there any steel fabricators nearby? You might be able to get some made to your specifications. Possibly in stainless steel.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[DexterII]

Are there any steel fabricators nearby? You might be able to get some made to your specifications. Possibly in stainless steel.

This is exactly what I would be looking at. Could be as simple as you want, something like a basic gate hinge with pieces of steel lagged to both the building and the door and a pin dropped through , to something more elaborate with slotted adjustment, flange bearings and fitted pins. I know that the local welding shop I use when I have something that I don't want to tackle myself turns out a lot of first class work.

 

[Colbyt]

Leave the word barn out of your searches. The idiots have ruined that term.


I grew up on a farm and I suggest to you that you will be far happier with sliding barn doors than hinged.


But this is is half of what you are looking for: https://www.qcsupply.com/10-hinge-s...d7a2Lt3O5bSOoaqVCduE2cfqN5dHaDcxoCrfMQAvD_BwE


and one of these is the other half: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/s...ageView:grid&minPrice:&maxPrice:&pageSize:40&

 

[jimfarwell]

My sincere thanks to all who replied to my query. I deeply appreciated all of your suggestions -- I considered each of them, and will address them.

First, Neal & Colby, yes, I thought about gate hinges. Both large flat T-hinges and the ones that hold the long pipe-gates (of which I have two at my road-entrances). The flat hinges I've found may be pretty, but aren't engineered to hold a 300-pound 8-foot-wide door. The other type definitely ARE engineered to hold the weight, and my posts are more than heavy enough to install the big L-bolts, but the female cylinder straps would have to be mortised into the door frame, to allow me to put the steel siding over them...that's a pain. Also, I'd druther have hinges on real bearings, if I had my “druthers”.

And Colby, I agree that "...the idiots have ruined..." the term "barn-door". I referred to them as decorators, but I like your term, idiots, a lot better. As to the choice of sliding doors, I agree that would be best, but as I said in my original post, that option is out: the barn is 24 feet wide, with a 16-foot opening, only 4 feet of wall on either side. Tracks for 8-foot sliding doors would extend out 4 feet past the corners of the barn, with no easy way to support them. Also, the barn is built on a slope, and the bank on the uphill side would prevent a sliding door from going far enough to clear the opening. ...And thanks for the link to the strap -- I knew they existed, but hadn't found them.

Cmwhitmoyer & DexterII -- yeah, I have a local steel fabricator and welder, Leo, who is a magician...not cheap, but excellent. I thought of him, but then struck gold on my last browsing expedition. I just lucked out...I found an outfit (Imperial USA, used to be "Global Door Controls") that makes flat 4.5" x 4.5", heavy-weight hinges with ball-bearings, steel more than 1/8 inch thick. You can find their products on Northern T&E and Stone Harbor, but neither site provides maximum weight data. I (finally) got hold of the source, Imperial USA, and reached one of their product-design people. I'll provide the information I gleaned, in case anyone else is interested.

He said there are other companies that make the truly massive hinges that I'd like, but they are for big commercial buildings, they are over-engineered to meet OSHA standards, and they are prohibitively expensive. He told me the reason there is no max weight data for most hinges is that it isn't just the weight of the door, it's the WIDTH of the door. He started getting into the principal of moments and leverage and razzenfratzer gazorninplot...can't begin to understand it all. He broke it down: try to use a 10-inch spanner to loosen a frozen lug nut (good luck); use a 36-inch breaker and it's easy. He said a 300-pound door that is three feet wide is much easier to support than a 300-pound door that is eight feet wide. That eight-foot expanse is leveraging, pulling the hinge-screws out of the wood like a breaker-bar.

Although the hinges made by Imperial USA aren't really engineered for doors as heavy and wide as mine, he said they would work fine if I DOUBLED THEM UP! he suggested I put two of their hinges at the top of each door, one at the bottom. He swore that would be strong enough to handle even an 8-foot wide 400 pound door. And the cost is unbelievably low - even with shipping and tax, I got the six hinges for $35 & change, which is about 25% of what I'd expected to pay.

Anyway, again, thanks to all of you for caring enough to contribute. I do respect and appreciate your expertise and commitment.

 

[de-nagorg]

I just saw this post, so I'm late with an idea.

Look for heavy duty PIANO hinges , in a large size.

Might be worth the search.

ED

 

[Msradell]

I just saw this post, so I'm late with an idea.

Look for heavy duty PIANO hinges , in a large size.

Might be worth the search.

ED

I've never seen a heavy duty piano hinge. Any of them I've ever seen only have hinge leaves that are about 1" or so. Would be interesting to see if you can find any that are "heavy-duty".

 

[lenaitch]

I found an outfit (Imperial USA, used to be "Global Door Controls") that makes flat 4.5" x 4.5", heavy-weight hinges with ball-bearings, steel more than 1/8 inch thick. You can find their products on Northern T&E and Stone Harbor, but neither site provides maximum weight data. I (finally) got hold of the source, Imperial USA, and reached one of their product-design people. I'll provide the information I gleaned, in case anyone else is interested.

He said there are other companies that make the truly massive hinges that I'd like, but they are for big commercial buildings, they are over-engineered to meet OSHA standards, and they are prohibitively expensive. He told me the reason there is no max weight data for most hinges is that it isn't just the weight of the door, it's the WIDTH of the door. He started getting into the principal of moments and leverage and razzenfratzer gazorninplot...can't begin to understand it all. He broke it down: try to use a 10-inch spanner to loosen a frozen lug nut (good luck); use a 36-inch breaker and it's easy. He said a 300-pound door that is three feet wide is much easier to support than a 300-pound door that is eight feet wide. That eight-foot expanse is leveraging, pulling the hinge-screws out of the wood like a breaker-bar.

Although the hinges made by Imperial USA aren't really engineered for doors as heavy and wide as mine, he said they would work fine if I DOUBLED THEM UP! he suggested I put two of their hinges at the top of each door, one at the bottom. He swore that would be strong enough to handle even an 8-foot wide 400 pound door. And the cost is unbelievably low - even with shipping and tax, I got the six hinges for $35 & change, which is about 25% of what I'd expected to pay.

Anyway, again, thanks to all of you for caring enough to contribute. I do respect and appreciate your expertise and commitment.

I would want them to be galvanized.

 

[de-nagorg]

Here is a link to e-bay listing for a 20" X 4 " steel hinge.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/120-Stainl...519826?hash=item442743a192:g:dsMAAOSwvihZANKI

At the bottom of the listing, they say that they make 6' too.

Might be worth calling them, and or looking them up on the web for more details.


ED

 

[jimfarwell]

I would want them to be galvanized.

Yeah, good idea, and if my spread were in a wetter climate, I'd have insisted on it. But the "Lazy B" is in the Big Bend region in eastern Washington, which ranges from arid to semi-arid. Rainfall is 8-10 inches a year (and half of that comes in cloudburst thunderstorms).

The hinges I ordered have a "satin nickel" finish...no idea how much rust-protection that gives me, but I'll clean with acetone, spray the flats with Rustoleum or similar, and will apply Superlube synthetic grease to the hinge-swivel and bearings every fall before the winter shut-down. Should last as long as I do.

 

[jimfarwell]

Here is a link to e-bay listing for a 20" X 4 " steel hinge.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/120-Stainl...519826?hash=item442743a192:g:dsMAAOSwvihZANKI

At the bottom of the listing, they say that they make 6' too.

Might be worth calling them, and or looking them up on the web for more details.


ED

Thanks for the input, Ed, but I'm really not looking for piano hinges. I just don't like the look.

 

[de-nagorg]

Thanks for the input, Ed, but I'm really not looking for piano hinges. I just don't like the look.

That's quite alright.

I put the link for the other reader that had requested seeing them.

But putting the look aside for a moment, a continuous hinge is less likely to sag from the weight.

By building the cross brace adjustable as you described, should be able to keep it in check well.

I hope that using what you ordered will be good to you.


ED

 

[huesmann]

Could some kind of double large bi-fold door work? That way you get some of the utility of sliding without having to deal with heavy duty hinges.

 

[lenaitch]

. . . Should last as long as I do.

I find as I get older this line logic creeps more and more into my thinking.

 

[SPS-1]

So each door is 8 feet wide x 11 feet high ? What knockers !!!

I tend to agree that the hinges you have will be fine. If the hinges are 10 feet apart, thats only about 100 pounds trying to pull the top one out of the jamb, (and 100 pounds pushing the bottom hinge into the jamb).

 

[SPS-1]

................

 

[jimfarwell]

That's quite alright.

I put the link for the other reader that had requested seeing them.

But putting the look aside for a moment, a continuous hinge is less likely to sag from the weight.

By building the cross brace adjustable as you described, should be able to keep it in check well.

I hope that using what you ordered will be good to you.

ED

Thanks, Ed --

(1) I hadn't considered that you might be answering the other reader's question...as usual, my huge ego assumed you must be talking to me. Mea culpa, sorry 'bout that.

(2) I've built several heavy doors for shop and other buildings at the Lazy B, and I've found that a certain limited amount of sag can indeed be AT the hinge, but usually not IN the hinge -- I normally buy good heavy butt-hinges and fasten them like strap-hinges, both leaves un-mortised and visible on the faces of the jamb and the door (I'm not looking for pretty, just practical). The door's weight places stress across the shear-strength of the screws and the strength of the wood of the post. Any sag comes from the screws getting loose due to drying and/or wood-deterioration. If I have thick enough wood and use long heavy screws, I seldom get much sag. If I do get some, I shim the door up, remove the screws, insert match-sticks (or in one extreme case, golf tees) and re-drive the original screws (or larger screws, if the hinge's holes will allow). HOWEVER, I have often experienced sag IN THE DOOR ITSELF, where over years the joints in the frame, however tight to begin with, loosen a bit and just won't hold the door square. I can alleviate this with tightly affixed front and back facings, or with corner gussets on the back, and certainly with strong diagonal bracing from bottom-inside corner to top-outside corner. But for the five-foot door on my workshop, the sag finally became too much to correct. I'd already moved the hinges, and was ready to rebuild the door -- then I discovered the beauty of a turnbuckle from top-inside to bottom-outside corners. Not pretty, but BOY does it work. If you are smart enough to build it in from the get-go, you can drill holes through cross-members of the door frame for the threaded rod or cable to go through, and just leave a small "door" on the back facing to allow access to the turnbuckle. Or if you're like me, you can affix it to the back of the door, visible. Looks good to me!

(3) Thank you for your well-wishes, using the hinge's I've already ordered. If by some chance they don't work out, I can remove the screws that hold the inside edge of the sheet-metal door facing, remove those hinges, and try your piano hinges. Nothing lost.

Jim

 

[de-nagorg]

Instead of using matchsticks or Tees to rebuild the worn holes, I have just drilled through the jambs, and used through bolts washers and nuts.

Most larger Butt hinges are drillable to a quarter inch hole and still be sturdy.

I did not know that you had a large ego, :wink2:.

ED

 

[jimfarwell]

Could some kind of double large bi-fold door work? That way you get some of the utility of sliding without having to deal with heavy duty hinges.

It's a swell idea -- double up the doors, create one giant 500-pound bi-fold door (likely using Ed's piano hinges to connect the two parts), and hang it from two huge roller-gizmos on a beefy track...yeah, that would work.

But the expense makes this option unrealistic for me. You have to realize, though I have a pension and SocSec, I have a home and an off-grid property, as well as three "kids" and three grand-kids, so perennially I'm broke flatter than p|$$ on a platter...and then, from birth I've been stingier than Ebenezer Scrooge -- my brother used to say I squeezed an Indian-Head nickel until the buffalo imploded. My wife just says I'm cheap...and shoot, she should know, she's had to live with me for 49 years.

But it IS a nice idea. Thanks.