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Discussion Starter #22
It doesn't look like you'd be able to get at the gutter hanger with that install. Our porch is about 55 feet long, and it starts high in the center and gets lower toward each end so the water drains. If it started just at the center hanger, I wonder if there would still be enough of it to go inside the gutter when it reached the end. Although I did see some flashing type stuff that came in a roll -- said you could cut what you needed and tuck it behind the gutter apron and into the gutter to span that gap if there was one...
 

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I&W goes over the drip edge or gutter flashing.

Some put the I&W under the edging, but it should go into the gutter or at least over the edge and stuck to the fascia. I don't like that way because then the fascias cannot be replaced without disrupting the whole thing by cutting the I&W.
 

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Oops - I meant over the drip edge, that's why I was thinking the pic was not exactly correct

Over at the gutter, under along the sides
 

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Guuter Apron Style Profile and Rake Edge O.D.E., Overhanging Drip Edge Profile Styles and installation photos.

Ed

The photos in this post are just of the G.A., Gutter Apron Style Drip Edge Metal.
 

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The photos in this post will be of the O.D.E., Overhanging Drip Edge Style sheet metal.

Ed

The first 2 photos are just the profile of the metal. The 3rd photo is showing how I overlap the top portion, "Shingle Fashion" so that the higher section lays on top of the lower section, but also how I inter-lock the sheet metal so that when viewing the rake edge of the home from the ground, no seam is visible, because I place the side edge of the fascia exposed portion of the lower section of ODE over the top of the higher piece of ODE.
 

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Now, for the final photos, which show how overlapping the fascia portion of the ODE seam in a reverse direction allows a clean aesthetic view from the ground all of the way up to the peak of the roof, without it looking as if there are any seams in the metal. The first photo is about a 30 foot rake edge and the 2nd photos is about 12-14 feet long.

The third photo admittedly could have had a cleaner and more plumb cut made with the tin snips to it, for the ODE that makes the transition over the peak of the roof to both sides.

Realize though, that from the ground, that slight faux pas is not noticeable and was not discovered by me until I was uploading the photos taken from a zoomed in perspective with my camera.

Ed
 

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We usually use 5" straight 26 gauge with a 1/2" drip extended over the gutter by 1 1/2".
This holds up the ice & water & shingles but allows access to the gutter hangers.
In places like Whistler there is no gutters as the 10 ft of snow would rip them off. The metal extended to the end of the shingles keeps the snow falling from the upper roofs from destroying the overhanging shingles
Dale Chomechko
DC Roofing Inc
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Ed, in the last two pictures, why is there a gap between the fascia and the drip edge? If I had that on my house, I'd have a wasp infestation in 3 days. :)
 

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I have ventilated houses with a gap between flashings & fascia on cedar/asphalt conversions, but usually the gap is not that wide & we do screen them.
Dale Chomechko
DC Roofing Inc
 

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Ed, in the last two pictures, why is there a gap between the fascia and the drip edge? If I had that on my house, I'd have a wasp infestation in 3 days. :)
That is not a gap.

There is a 1" x 2" Frieze Board nailed to the top of the main fascia board.

Usually, we tear those off, because they have been rain and sun damaged, but in this case it was solid.

The Drip Edge metal is tight to the 1" x 2".

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I have talked to three roofing companie so far (two of them pretty big) and nobody seems to use gutter apron. Is it that rare?
 

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Companies are so used to getting chiseled down on price and getting beat out over a few hundred bucks, that many resort to eliminating recommended, but not required materials and labor from the jobs they bid.

They may even subconsciously start to believe that those items are not an added value to the Roofing System, but that is just one of the reasons why most roofs only last between 12-15 years, due to many such short-cuts that are taken.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I wish you lived in upstate NY! :) I will keep trying until someone doesn't look at me like I'm nuts.
 

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Companies are so used to getting chiseled down on price and getting beat out over a few hundred bucks, that many resort to eliminating recommended, but not required materials and labor from the jobs they bid.

They may even subconsciously start to believe that those items are not an added value to the Roofing System, but that is just one of the reasons why most roofs only last between 12-15 years, due to many such short-cuts that are taken.

Ed
There is another reason Ed, in my area we don't get the same severe type of snow and ice build up that some of the more northern cities and states get, thus drip edge properly installed to lap over the facial covering and ice guard over that is sufficient in my area.
I think it's a shame that most roofers I know here in my area do not know the difference between drip edge and eave flashing, but that's because the majority of them do not have experience working in other states where such a product is an extremely important part of the roofing system.

I have worked in 19 different states and all over Ohio when traveling for Simon Roofing, thus I experienced many of the differences there are from one state to another.
When I installed roofs in Florida the locals looked at me like I was nuts when I started to lay starter strips up the rakes, they covered their drip edge in roof cement and than cut the shingles even with the outside edge of the drip.
When they told me I was going to use L flashing on the walls and chimneys instead of step flashing's I looked at them like they were nuts.

Different environments, require different steps/procedures to achieve a quality roof system.
 

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Companies are so used to getting chiseled down on price and getting beat out over a few hundred bucks, that many resort to eliminating recommended, but not required materials and labor from the jobs they bid.

They may even subconsciously start to believe that those items are not an added value to the Roofing System, but that is just one of the reasons why most roofs only last between 12-15 years, due to many such short-cuts that are taken.

Ed

So true Ed, so true...............

We have lost jobs for $50, and then come to find out that the other roofer wasn't installing any new flashings, valleys, or vents. This happens so often, I can't believe that the public doesn't catch on.


Most like to blame the contractor, but sometimes it's the homeowner penny pinching that gets them in trouble.
 

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I wish you lived in upstate NY! :) I will keep trying until someone doesn't look at me like I'm nuts.
That's kinda odd, both times I worked in NY which was near 'Big Bear' I think it was called, they had some pretty heavy snows compared to what we normally get here in my area, thus eave flashing was used instead of drip edge, we still used drip edge on the rakes, just not the eaves.

Try asking about "eave flashing" rather than gutter apron, they may be confused because they know it by a different term like me.
 

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"eave flashing" up here is what some cities call I&W.

I have used drip edge and gutter flashing on eaves. On my own house I have Style D drip edge and the gutter fits on there just fine. I prefer to use steel over aluminum as much as possible. I&W on top of the drip or apron, of course. That is code here.
 

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"eave flashing" up here is what some cities call I&W.

I have used drip edge and gutter flashing on eaves. On my own house I have Style D drip edge and the gutter fits on there just fine. I prefer to use steel over aluminum as much as possible. I&W on top of the drip or apron, of course. That is code here.
That's exactly my point, to me ice & water shield is ice guard,
gutter apron is eave flashing, same materials called by different names.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
You guys should get together and form an association of some sort and hammer this stuff out. :eek:
 
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