[miamicuse]

Some years ago I started to transition away from traditional outdoor motion lights and replaced all my security lights with integrated LED fixtures, these should last like 35+ years according to the product listing.


But I have actually replaced quite a few of them since and as I recall NONE of them lasted more than 2 years. My old cheap Copper Lighting clunky motion light that uses two PAR38 bulbs lasted over ten years and it was still working when I went with the new shiny LED fixtures.


I am just not sure these newer fixtures were designed to take the beating. I am in South Florida so yes hot sun high humidity frequent rain sometimes hurricanes.


While the bulbs may last 35+ years, the fixtures doesn't.


The motion sensor is often covered with a piece of fragile plastic in the front. This piece of plastic cracks after being in the sun for a while, letting water in.


Water gets inside the LED light housing. On some of them I can actually see water ponded at the bottom, we have driving rain often in the summers. This is from a fixture flush mounted on the wall and sealed around the perimeter of the base. I don't know if the water is getting in from the swivel arm mechanism, or it may have been condensation, but this light lasted six months before it turned into a disco flashing light.

I tried $39 fixtures, and I tried $129 fixtures, doesn't matter.


I am going back to the cheap basic weatherproof lights with two PAR38 bulbs, and will just use LED bulbs.

 

[Wiredindallas]

I agree. Failing integrated fixture replacement is like "throwing out the baby with the bath water".

 

[Oldmaster]

We have used LED fixtures made by RAB lighting and never had a problem. One of the issues is installing the sensor below the fixtures. Always install with sensor on top pointing down.

 

[seharper]

Some years ago I started to transition away from traditional outdoor motion lights and replaced all my security lights with integrated LED fixtures, these should last like 35+ years according to the product listing.

Uh huh.

But I have actually replaced quite a few of them since and as I recall NONE of them lasted more than 2 years. My old cheap Copper Lighting clunky motion light that uses two PAR38 bulbs lasted over ten years and it was still working when I went with the new shiny LED fixtures.

Except you remember the Cooper brand, which is a reputable long-lived brand owned by Eaton. You do not remember the brand of the LED jobs.

I am just not sure these newer fixtures were designed to take the beating. I am in South Florida so yes hot sun high humidity frequent rain sometimes hurricanes.

While the bulbs may last 35+ years, the fixtures doesn't.

The motion sensor is often covered with a piece of fragile plastic in the front. This piece of plastic cracks after being in the sun for a while, letting water in.

Water gets inside the LED light housing. On some of them I can actually see water ponded at the bottom...

Sounds like a serious case of cheap Chinese.

Yeah, the problem is, having the LED emitter last 40 years doesn't buy you much if all the supporting equipment isn't there. Cheap driver with Chinese capacitors, flimsy plastic case that falls apart, RoHS solder that crystallizes... all the details matter.

I've paid $9 for a cheap no-name Chinese 10W yard light, and on the same order $15 for a LEDWholesalers 10W yard light. The difference in build quality was palpable, even with a teardown. The LEDWholesalers has run for 6 years. The no-name quit after less than a year. I know how to swap an LED driver, but the whole unit was just too cheaply built and decayed that there was no saving it.

I tried $39 fixtures, and I tried $129 fixtures, doesn't matter.

Well, everybody's wise to no-name brands with incompetently written ad copy in Engrish and a price 1/4 of major brands.

So now, the Chinese have gotten better at making their product listings look real. They gave their junk a spit shine:

- They made up a bunch of English sounding brands (I call one of them "IkeaGuy" because all his brands sounds like Ikea products like Talaxa or Gronnu).
- They got an English speaker to write their ad copy and graphics.
- Search engine optimization.
- brushing to pump up positive reviews.
- Dropship stock to Amazon's warehouse so it ships with Prime instead of ePacket from China.
- Raise their prices to within 20% of competent brands like Cooper.

So now you go "Euro brand, English copy, quality price, sounds legit!"

Of course it's the same identical swill.

I am going back to the cheap basic weatherproof lights with two PAR38 bulbs, and will just use LED bulbs.

If your idea of "cheap" is Cooper (which is Eaton), Square D, Sylvania and Philips, then I agree with you!

I had a Cooper motion sensor fail. 3 years out I called em and said "Failed unit". They said "Here's an RMA #". Sweet.

 

[CodeMatters]

Not just the outdoor fixtures for me. Indoor as well I'd rather put up a
regular fixture with LED lamps. This includes T8 fixtures with line voltage
T8 style LED lamp(s).
A local small business put in...hmm...about 18 3'x2" integrated LED
fixtures about 5 years ago. They're starting to fail; replaced 3 in the
last year.
I have seen outdoor integrated LED RAB lights that seem to last...but
those particular lights are in the 3-$400 range up here....not something
I'd be putting around my house.

 

[Oldmaster]

You are correct. The RAB fixtures we use are around $135. We are the electricians of choice for 3 Home Depot stores. We do all their electrical related work from generators to door bell. We stopped installing their motion sensor lights because we had too many customers experiencing failures with them.

 

[seharper]

Not just the outdoor fixtures for me. Indoor as well I'd rather put up a
regular fixture with LED lamps. This includes T8 fixtures with line voltage
T8 style LED lamp(s).

I hear you on direct-wire T8 style LED tubes, but I haven't found any brands I feel confidence with. I am very confident in GE and Philips ballasts, and Sylvania actual fluorescent tubes. Those companies know how to build stuff that lasts.

I've had 2 burning 24x7 for 6 years. One finally croaked, but the burnt bands on the tubes make it obvious the tube just EOL'd, which I expected sooner. That's a $2 fix.

We are the electricians of choice for 3 Home Depot stores. We stopped installing their motion sensor lights....

There's the quality problem. They're not as bad as "Sold by XXX and Fulfilled by Amazon", but Feit Electric, Utilitech, Lights of America and Commercial Electric are still junk compared to GE, Sylvania etc.

When Home Depot's junk brands fail, do you get to charge HD for the service call?

 

[Oldmaster]

That was one of the reasons we no longer install them. The customer doesn't want to pay and of course HD won't pay. They will exchange the fixture but it still has to be installed. So now you have 2 free trips. Not much profit there.

 

[dmxtothemax]

I doubt that any fixtures on the market today will last,
People long ago stopped caring about quality and long life
Now they just want cheaper !
pay less means you get less
lucky if you get five years

 

[FrodoOne]

A good "rule of thumb" is to never install units which integrate the "sensor" and the "luminair".
Always install two seperate devices, with one supplying the other.

The sensor can then be placed for optimum sensing and the luminair(s) for optimum lighting.
(Multiple parallelled sensors are also possible, with which isolation switches are a good idea, but that is another story.)

While it does cost more in the first place, if one fails, that is the only one(s) that you need to replace - with a (possibly) better unit.

 

[miamicuse]

Uh huh.
Except you remember the Cooper brand, which is a reputable long-lived brand owned by Eaton. You do not remember the brand of the LED jobs.

Sounds like a serious case of cheap Chinese.

Yeah, the problem is, having the LED emitter last 40 years doesn't buy you much if all the supporting equipment isn't there. Cheap driver with Chinese capacitors, flimsy plastic case that falls apart, RoHS solder that crystallizes... all the details matter.

I've paid $9 for a cheap no-name Chinese 10W yard light, and on the same order $15 for a LEDWholesalers 10W yard light. The difference in build quality was palpable, even with a teardown. The LEDWholesalers has run for 6 years. The no-name quit after less than a year. I know how to swap an LED driver, but the whole unit was just too cheaply built and decayed that there was no saving it.

Well, everybody's wise to no-name brands with incompetently written ad copy in Engrish and a price 1/4 of major brands.

So now, the Chinese have gotten better at making their product listings look real. They gave their junk a spit shine:

- They made up a bunch of English sounding brands (I call one of them "IkeaGuy" because all his brands sounds like Ikea products like Talaxa or Gronnu).
- They got an English speaker to write their ad copy and graphics.
- Search engine optimization.
- brushing to pump up positive reviews.
- Dropship stock to Amazon's warehouse so it ships with Prime instead of ePacket from China.
- Raise their prices to within 20% of competent brands like Cooper.

So now you go "Euro brand, English copy, quality price, sounds legit!"

Of course it's the same identical swill.

If your idea of "cheap" is Cooper (which is Eaton), Square D, Sylvania and Philips, then I agree with you!

I had a Cooper motion sensor fail. 3 years out I called em and said "Failed unit". They said "Here's an RMA #". Sweet.

The problem I think even the brands you mentioned, are in the same boat as the "no name Chinese" brands.


One of those I threw out was an EATON MST18R17L LED security light, also made in China. They don't seem to last long either.


I can't really tell the difference between EATON Chinese VS Big Box house brand Chinese.


For example I bought some made by DEFIANT and none of those lasted more than six months. It's a Home Depot house brand and they are nice enough to replace it with a new fixture, twice, but I am done with replacing the fixture every six months. I called their tech support and let them know the unit failed because water got inside, even if I mounted it flushed against the exterior wall and put caulk around the base of the housing. The tech told me the light fixture is water resistant but not water proof...huh? I did submerge it under my pool!

 

[Oldmaster]

Just before this Corona stuff we had 4- 2 tube 8' vapor proof fixtures LED not "as bright as they used to be". They were RAB fixtures. We didn't do the original install. Switched lamps around and determined the drivers were bad. Called the company they asked the model #. They sent me new drivers, new lamps and new fixtures. No cost to me. They said they have a lifetime guarantee. Can't beat that. Old lights in the shop now