[Dynasty]

I am having issues with the newly constructed home my family and I moved into November 2019.



My question is: What is the correct way to fix these issues?


Is a complete floorhttp://i.viglink.com/?key=34123deb0...&txt=<span>complete </span><span>floor</span> tear out required? That way the sub floor can be screwed down, island secured properly, then floor installed?

Please note - the builder has a long track record in the area (25 + years building homes) and uses the same subcontractors for many years.

- Moved into home November 2019
- Noticed floor bounce throughout home (ranch)
- Floor bounce caused kitchen island to bounce (picture T-Rex scene in Jurassic Parkhttp://i.viglink.com/?key=34123deb0...y&txt=<span>Jurassic </span><span>Park</span> with the water bouncing in a glass), duct work to squeak, and overall floor pops and squeaks
- Builder agreed to sister 30+ floor joists to remove floor bounce in February 2020 (not 100% successful but a noticeable improvement)
- Adding the joists caused the sub floor to shift which resulted in dips and high spots to be felt under the luxury vinyl plank floating floor when walking on it
- Flooringhttp://i.viglink.com/?key=34123deb0...Floor Pro Community&txt=<span>Flooring</span> subcontractor came to review in May 2020 and found handful of planks had broken locking mechanisms, but said high and low spots in floor is within specifications and will not be fixed
- Numerous other floor pops and squeaks developed as result of shifted sub floor
- I was told it's normal and house is settling, lumber is drying out, etc.
- 3 other contractors came out to review moving kitchen islandhttp://i.viglink.com/?key=34123deb0...&txt=<span>kitchen </span><span>island</span> and all said it is secured to the cleats properly, but the sub floor is not secured to the joists properly.
- Builder suggested adding legs to overhang of island. Temporary 2x4 legs were rigged up to test for improvement. While a minor improvement was there with the legs, it is not the look we wanted our kitchen islandhttp://i.viglink.com/?key=34123deb0...&txt=<span>kitchen </span><span>island</span> to have. If it was a complete fix, we could live with it, but for a minor improvement, we don't want the legs there.
- Floor throughout house sounds like walking on peanut shells or cracking ice. Someone said it sounds like rice krispies are crackling under the floor
- I contacted manufacturer and described sound
- They said sounds like improper sub floor prep prior to installation (could be debris under floor)
- Flooring contractor and builder said it is normal for floating floor to make noise

 

[chandler48]

Could you fill us in on the size, species and unsupported span of the floor joists? Is it over a crawl space or over a basement? Are there any intermediate posts and/or beams ?
Before it goes too far, you may want to retain an attorney to allow the legal process to start turning, as it is slow to begin with, and you may be entering a full fledged war against the GC and/or the subs who have told you it is normal.

 

[Dynasty]

Could you fill us in on the size, species and unsupported span of the floor joists? Is it over a crawl space or over a basement? Are there any intermediate posts and/or beams ?
Before it goes too far, you may want to retain an attorney to allow the legal process to start turning, as it is slow to begin with, and you may be entering a full fledged war against the GC and/or the subs who have told you it is normal.

2"x10" joists, I am unsure of the material of the original joists. Douglas fir were used when the sistering joists were added. Along with a couple LVL joists.



Full basement construction. 8" thick poured concrete walls 8' high. There are 5 steel i beams total. Longest run of wood joist is 14' 8", then steel beam, and another 14' 8" run of wood joist. All plans engineered, inspected, approved by the necessary personnel per county/state etc.



I would like to avoid arbitration and/or court if possible. I will need to keep contacting the GC. I am considering contacting the local home builder association (builder is a member) and explaining what is going on.

 

[3onthetree]

wood joist is 14' 8", then steel beam, and another 14' 8" run of wood joist

Live load 40psf, dead load 10psf:
DF#2 = 15-7"
SYP#2 = 14'-0"

dead load 20psf:
DF#2 = 14-3"
SYP#2 = 12'-10"

It sounds like the contractor is taking "reasonable" efforts to try and fix the structure, at least he hasn't ghosted you like most threads talk about. Assuming with the sistering and more LVLs an engineer has looked at it. If not, hire one, as there could be other factors in the framing layout than just the island causing your bounce. The subfloor attachment may be a workmanship or materials issue, that may be another can of worms.

 

[Dynasty]

Live load 40psf, dead load 10psf:
DF#2 = 15-7"
SYP#2 = 14'-0"

dead load 20psf:
DF#2 = 14-3"
SYP#2 = 12'-10"

It sounds like the contractor is taking "reasonable" efforts to try and fix the structure, at least he hasn't ghosted you like most threads talk about. Assuming with the sistering and more LVLs an engineer has looked at it. If not, hire one, as there could be other factors in the framing layout than just the island causing your bounce. The subfloor attachment may be a workmanship or materials issue, that may be another can of worms.

I am unsure if an engineer reviewed the sistering joist plan. A few of the lumber contractors came out, looked at the situation, and then a few days later showed up with 30+ joists and a crew started installing.


The lumber contractor looked at the island even after the sistering and thinks the subfloor below the island is not attached to the joists properly.


The GC's handyman said the same thing.


The trim carpenter also said he installed the island properly. He pulled out the dishwasher that is in the island to reveeal his work of securing the cleats with fasteners and gluing accordingly. He gave the island a good shake and the subfloor can be seen moving as he shook the island.


I feel like one of the trades should have noticed this prior to the completion of the house. No one is taking responsibility for the issue.

 

[Nealtw]

What is the size and length of the joists.

 

[Oso954]

Are there any copies of this house in the neighborhood ? If so, have you talked the owners of those houses to see if they have the same problems ?

You might want to hire your own engineer to look at it and get some unbiased input.

My first thought is that the island might be your problem. If you have a giant island top on a smallish base for the top size, you are concentrating the weight over fewer joists than if the base was larger. If you have this island near the mid span of the joists, it is a bigger problem than if it is close to a supported end of the joists. You can overload them even though average lbs/sq/ft numbers are telling you that everything is OK. (Your legs under the overhang got me thinking of a giant stone countertop. What else is in that Island ? Heavy pots, pans, china, etc weigh more than lighter stuff.)

If the joists are over stressed by a concentrated load mid span, a moving load (person walking by, or just shaking the island) can set the whole thing bouncing. The excessive movement can cause noises. You may even get delayed sounds out of it. Even when a subfloor might have been properly secured to begin with, excessive movement can loosen things up.

Is there any blocking between the joists ? Blocking can stiffen the floor by transferring load to adjacent joists and making them act in unison.

BTW, when I say mid span I am talking near the center of your 14-8 joist, not the middle of the approx 30 ft total span.

 

[SPS-1]

As far as the noise goes, it is not uncommon to hear complaints of noise with floating floors.