[Groom]

Hello, board. This is my first question here. ^^;

I'm trying to re-landscape my entire yard. Here's a bird's-eye view of my lot:

My house is on bottom, front door facing the bottom, and my garage is at the top against the alley.

As you can see, my house is built right along the left edge of the property so that it buts up against my neighbor's yard. In fact, there is no fence between our yards along the length of my house; my exterior wall is their "fence".

At the front and back of my house, though, there is an actual fence between our yards. The thing is, at the front of my house, the fence doesn't follow the line of the wall; at the corner of my house, it actually jogs out a foot or two toward my neighbor's yard and then runs up to the front of my yard.

Here's a simplified drawing I did:

My question is, do you think maybe my property line is actually that foot or two farther out toward my neighbor, and they just didn't build the fence there because it would have left such a narrow space between it and my house?

How can I find out?

And if the property line is that far out, do you think it would be OK for me to build a fence along it in a straight line all the way back? I wouldn't ask except my back fence is falling apart, and if I have to replace it, I might want to move it out and claim that much more yard, if I can, rather than leave it where it is. It would narrow my neighbor's walkway from their front to back yards, but not by too much, I think. (My picture makes it look like I'd be cutting the space in half, but I think I'd actually only be shaving a quarter or a little more off.)

Maybe it's silly, but I'm not very fond of the idea of my wall being the neighbor's fence. I'd just feel more secure if there were a line between us.

Thanks for your help! ^^;

 

[SPS-1]

My question is, do you think maybe my property line is actually that foot or two farther out toward my neighbor.....

Yes.

I never heard of being allowed to build a house ON the property line. Commonly, you have to be a certain distance from the property line. Its called the set-back. (but there is no guarantee the house was built to town bylaws)

When was the house built ? Your town may have a survey on record.

If replacing the fence, its always best to put the fence TOTALLY on one property or the other, rather than putting the post exactly on the property line.

By the way, nice sketch.


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[mark sr]

I've painted whole subdivisions that were zero lot line. One edge of the house would be on the line.


There should be an iron pin at each survey point, find them and you'll know where the property line is.

 

[rjniles]

Be careful about adverse possession laws. If the fence has been there long enough the neighbor may have rights to your property. Lenghth of time and and conditions vary by state. Talk to the neighbor about your plan and possibly a lawyer.

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[b.rooster4321]

I lived in a house in Texas where our whole subdivision was zero property line which meant the house was the line


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[DexterII]

Your thinking makes sense and it sounds like you are giving it due diligence, so have probably already considered this, but the space between houses looks pretty tight, and it looks like running a fence down the middle could make it darn near impossible or at least very difficult to maintain. It would be tight for mowing or even using a trimmer on both sides, and the fence is going to compound that between trimming the grass that grows through it and any debris that it collects. So I understand your point, but another thing you might consider, assuming you can determine the property line is in fact a foot or so over, is run the new fence in the back on the property and dog leg it back to the house like the front one is. That wouldn't prevent your house from essentially being the property line, but it would give you something in the backyard, and possibly prevent a maintenance situation along the side of the house that you came to regret.

 

[Bud9051]

If you end up creating a narrow strip just remove the grass and replace it with a nice stone covering. Just at a friends and he has the front 3' from the house out all nice stones.

Bud

 

[huesmann]

When did you buy the house? Didn't they give you a survey then? Do you have a courthouse where they keep records, or a state database?

 

[Biscuits]

The first step is to visit your city planning department. There should be something on file that will get you started on approximate lot line locations.

Where I live, all that information is online in the GIS system and I can use the measuring tool to see that my property line is approximately 2' in from the sidewalk, for example.

It's not survey quality, but it's a good start.

If the picture in your avatar is your house, then there is a good chance that when your neighborhood was built only a 5' building code side yard setback was required.

 

[Groom]

@SPS-1: The house was built in 1900! EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, the original house was built in 1900, but that only covers the area directly under the front-facing peak. That whole side section against the neighbor's yard was added later, I don't know when, but possibly 1984. (Thanks, Montana Cadastral.)

Why is it best to put the fence totally on one property rather than on the line?

And thanks about the sketch! I like sketching in Microsoft Paint. X)

@mark sr: :O How would I go about finding these iron pins? A metal detector? Would they be on the street, or just in my yard?

@rjniles: Thanks for letting me know about adverse possession laws. I will definitely have to talk to my neighbor to make sure we're both OK with whatever plan we go forward with.

@DexterII: I am still thinking about the wisdom of potentially building a fence that creates an unpassable narrow strip along my house.

Some good news is that the space between our houses isn't as narrow as I was estimating:

It'll still be exceptionally narrow on my side, but at least the neighbor will have room to work.

Also, I intend to create a no-mow landscape, so maintaining my side of the fence won't be as big an issue as it otherwise would have been.

As @Bud9051 said, turning my narrow strip into stone is one option. I'm also thinking about the possibility of making the fence open-able somehow, be that by a series of gates, some sliding mechanism, or a convenient way to un-roll chain link from one end to the other whenever maintenance is required. (I still have a couple new windows to install in that wall, plus new siding eventually, so access will be really important.)

(The bigger issue, really, is that moving the fence would cut through some bushes in my neighbor's yard. I'm hoping my neighbor will be happy to negotiate with me.)

@huesmann: I bought the house last year! But it was my dad's before, and we didn't go through the usual buying-selling process. I'd been living there three years already, and we'd been doing work on it all that time, and at some point, I just got a loan from the bank (less than the house was really worth), gave him the money, and he transferred the deed to me. I don't remember a survey being part of the paperwork, just the legal description of the property... I can ask the courthouse for a survey record, I guess!

@Biscuits: Thanks, I checked my online cadastral, and unfortunately I don't think it's very helpful. The resolution is too low, and the lines don't seem accurate, because they don't line up with actual geography... Either that or everyone in the neighborhood is built way off our properties!:

And yes, the picture in my avatar is my house. ^^ I think my neighborhood was built before any kind of sensible building code was established, ha...

 

[Bud9051]

Just a quick thought on making the fence removable. A chain link fence can be made in sections of almost any length, don't go too long. But then sections can be placed between standard fence posts with standard fasteners. Should the need arrive any section could be easily removed and replaced.

Bud

 

[Groom]

@Bud9051: Brilliant, thank you!

 

[mark sr]

How would I go about finding these iron pins? A metal detector? Would they be on the street, or just in my yard?

A metal detector helps. Your deed will give a description of where the pins are [and how many in case the lot isn't a perfect rectangle] Normally they'll be at the corners of your yard. The street is usually owned by the gov't and unless the property is very old there won't be any pins under the road.

 

[SPS-1]

Why is it best to put the fence totally on one property rather than on the line?

Then its your fence on your property. No issues. Maybe your neighbor is a great guy and you never have disagreements with him. But what about the guy your neighbor sells to, 3 years down the road ?

Built 120 years ago does not help. Who knows what survey or what records exist from back then. But you would think that the 1984 addition would have required permits, inspections and a current survey.


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[ron45]

I would see if the neighbor is willing to concrete/blacktop between the two house and put up a section of 8-10 high privacy fence right down the middle.

Leave all the rest alone if its not that big of a deal.

 

[SPS-1]

I once looked at putting rubber paving stone squares on an area that got little sun. Available at any big box store. Would keep grass/weeds from growing. But cost adds up pretty quickly.

 

[georgemcq]

Hire a registered surveyor and get it in writing with measurements. Should cost $300 to $400 and your mind is at rest forever.
Keep in mind that the surveyor may find something that you don't like....encroachments.

 

[Biscuits]

You gotta drive into town and visit the building/planning department and ask to look at the microfiche. That 1984 addition should be archived and you'll be able to get all sorts of useful information, such as the lot line survey that was (most likely) required as part of the permitting process.

You might even discover, unlikely, that you have a side yard easement with the neighbor.

Or you just find a surveyor somewhere and pay him a couple hundred dollars and he does it all for you.

 

[lenaitch]

+1 on the records search and hiring a surveyor to do a locate. A records search might reveal any easements (utilities, etc.) in that space, which would preclude the installation of pretty much anything.

 

[ron45]

What happened to the plot plans you received when the house was bought/built.

These plans have all the info you need.
If you can't find them go to your local Land Use Office and get a copy.