[secutanudu]

My parents are ready to replace their 35-year-old wooden windows on their '70s house. We do not plan to do this replacement ourselves, they will be hiring a contractor to do it.

What are the things to look out for when picking new windows? I assume vinyl double-pained are the way to go?

What manufacturers? Pella? Anderson?

Is it a safe assumption that even brand-name windows from HD or Lowe's will be of inferior quality than ones purchased through a contractor?

What's the best way to go about finding a company to do it? Just word of mouth?

Thanks. Never been involved in replacing windows before, so I am curious as to what advice people will have.

 

[user1007]

My parents are ready to replace their 35-year-old wooden windows on their '70s house. We do not plan to do this replacement ourselves, they will be hiring a contractor to do it.

What are the things to look out for when picking new windows? I assume vinyl double-pained are the way to go?

What manufacturers? Pella? Anderson?

Is it a safe assumption that even brand-name windows from HD or Lowe's will be of inferior quality than ones purchased through a contractor?

What's the best way to go about finding a company to do it? Just word of mouth?

Thanks. Never been involved in replacing windows before, so I am curious as to what advice people will have.

Ask around and find the busiest, booked solid, renovation contractor in your area and ask him/her about windows. He/she will stop work for a minute and help you. He/she may not have time to get to your project for a year or two but will recommend someone good. His/her sub may want a few extra bucks to place new windows into the exact same openings. It is not a big deal.

However, make sure you are up for surprises like having to replace some rotted framing if the windows in place now failed into the walls.

Under no circumstances should you buy windows from a box store. And, not saying they are all bad, but the subs the places hire are not finding work for a reason. Do you want them installing your windows?

I just replaced most of the windows in my Godparents house with nice gas filled, wood framed Pella's but would have gone with Anderson's in a heart beat also. My aunt is up there but active and loves that she can tip the windows in to clean both sides.

I guess it depends on what your folks can afford and what they want. Obviously thermal insulation. What other features?

 

[Jkslate]

My parents are ready to replace their 35-year-old wooden windows on their '70s house. We do not plan to do this replacement ourselves, they will be hiring a contractor to do it.

What are the things to look out for when picking new windows? I assume vinyl double-pained are the way to go?

What manufacturers? Pella? Anderson?

Is it a safe assumption that even brand-name windows from HD or Lowe's will be of inferior quality than ones purchased through a contractor?

What's the best way to go about finding a company to do it? Just word of mouth?

Thanks. Never been involved in replacing windows before, so I am curious as to what advice people will have.

Hello! I work in the window and door business as an installer, and will do my best to help you out.

First off, both Home depot and Lowes sub out their install work. I HIGHLY recommend you stay away from them both, otherwise you could potentially fall into the dark hole of "installed sales". Which is a very bad place to be. You may be intrigued by their prices, but it's usually not worth the potential hassle.

IMO vinyl double pane low-e (argon filled if you're in a cold area) is the way to go, unless you're specifically looking for a wood window. I have installed dozens of different manufacturer windows and personally I've had the least amount of problems installing Milgard windows. They are generally manufacturered well have everything you want in a vinyl window.

That being said, do some research. What kind of locks do you like? What about the "look" of the window? Many vinyl windows look different and you might like one look over another, sometimes the low-e glass is slightly different color from different manufacturers, is that a problem? Do you not like slightly green glass? Blue? Etc.

I suggest you find a good window company (kudzu, angieslist, etc can maybe help you here?) Word of mouth is usually best. Finding a good window company is probably the biggest step, once you do that, they can answer all the questions you could possibly have.

Good luck!

Edit: One HUGE thing. You mentioned you have old wood windows, this could potentially be a huge issue for you as in the 60's and 70's they used lead in the paint. Recently here in San Diego, CA in order to replace those windows the company must be Lead certified and do a clean install. The entire area must be tarped/plastic'd off and the installers have to go in with a full suit and mask to remove the windows and replace. Then clean the area thoroughly with wipes and hepa vac, etc. The area must then be tested for Lead and pass the inspection. This extra work unfortunately can translate to much higher costs to the consumer. I don't know if this applies in your area or not, you may be able to opt out of that requirement, but if you have kids, you might not want to. Something to think about.

 

[kwikfishron]

Hello! I work in the window and door business as an installer, and will do my best to help you out.

First off, both Home depot and Lowes sub out their install work. I HIGHLY recommend you stay away from them both, otherwise you could potentially fall into the dark hole of "installed sales". Which is a very bad place to be. You may be intrigued by their prices, but it's usually not worth the potential hassle.

IMO vinyl double pane low-e (argon filled if you're in a cold area) is the way to go, unless you're specifically looking for a wood window. I have installed dozens of different manufacturer windows and personally I've had the least amount of problems installing Milgard windows. They are generally manufacturered well have everything you want in a vinyl window.

That being said, do some research. What kind of locks do you like? What about the "look" of the window? Many vinyl windows look different and you might like one look over another, sometimes the low-e glass is slightly different color from different manufacturers, is that a problem? Do you not like slightly green glass? Blue? Etc.

I suggest you find a good window company (kudzu, angieslist, etc can maybe help you here?) Word of mouth is usually best. Finding a good window company is probably the biggest step, once you do that, they can answer all the questions you could possibly have.

Good luck!

Edit: One HUGE thing. You mentioned you have old wood windows, this could potentially be a huge issue for you as in the 60's and 70's they used lead in the paint. Recently here in San Diego, CA in order to replace those windows the company must be Lead certified and do a clean install. The entire area must be tarped/plastic'd off and the installers have to go in with a full suit and mask to remove the windows and replace. Then clean the area thoroughly with wipes and hepa vac, etc. The area must then be tested for Lead and pass the inspection. This extra work unfortunately can translate to much higher costs to the consumer. I don't know if this applies in your area or not, you may be able to opt out of that requirement, but if you have kids, you might not want to. Something to think about.

I agree with you on Milgard, they also offer a Stainless Steel Hardware package which is a must for casements and awning windows if your near the coast.

It’s also worth mentioning that their customer service is the best I’ve ever seen with a window manufacture. I have a couple of stories where they went way beyond the call of duty to make things right.

 

[HomeSealed]

Vinyl windows won't offer the beauty of wood, but they will be better in performance, maintenance, price, etc, etc. Some highly regarded brands are Gorell, Softlite, Sunrise, Plygem, and Okna... Few things to look for: Sloped sill (as opposed to "pocket" /weep holes), manufacturing tolerances (you should be able to shake the sash in a double hung with little to no "slop"), weatherstripping (type and amount).... Without going too much further into detail, there are some companies that are universally regarded as high quality, such as those listed above. As far as the company themselves, stick to a local window/exterior specialist as opposed to a general contractor. As mentioned, check out reviews, Angies list etc, go look at some of their work, and ask them to go through their install procedure. One thing to look for is the use of low-expansion foam instead of fiberglass, labor/workmanship warranty, etc. STAY AWAY from high-pressure sales companies and the box stores.

 

[MJW]

Edit: One HUGE thing. You mentioned you have old wood windows, this could potentially be a huge issue for you as in the 60's and 70's they used lead in the paint. Recently here in San Diego, CA in order to replace those windows the company must be Lead certified and do a clean install. The entire area must be tarped/plastic'd off and the installers have to go in with a full suit and mask to remove the windows and replace. Then clean the area thoroughly with wipes and hepa vac, etc. The area must then be tested for Lead and pass the inspection. This extra work unfortunately can translate to much higher costs to the consumer. I don't know if this applies in your area or not, you may be able to opt out of that requirement, but if you have kids, you might not want to. Something to think about.

This applies anywhere in the US, and there is no opt out option. The only way around it is to DIY on the entire process. If not, a Certified firm and Renovators is a must....that is unless lead paint is not present. This can be found out from a certified firm when they do the test. Everything must be disclosed also in future sales of the property.
I went through the training a few months ago. With the proper funding now, this is the law. EPA fines are not petty either.

In our state of MN, we can't even get a permit on a home pre-1978 without being certified.

 

[MJW]

Vinyl windows won't offer the beauty of wood, but they will be better in performance, maintenance, price, etc, etc. Some highly regarded brands are Gorell, Softlite, Sunrise, Plygem, and Okna... Few things to look for: Sloped sill (as opposed to "pocket" /weep holes), manufacturing tolerances (you should be able to shake the sash in a double hung with little to no "slop"), weatherstripping (type and amount).... Without going too much further into detail, there are some companies that are universally regarded as high quality, such as those listed above. As far as the company themselves, stick to a local window/exterior specialist as opposed to a general contractor. As mentioned, check out reviews, Angies list etc, go look at some of their work, and ask them to go through their install procedure. One thing to look for is the use of low-expansion foam instead of fiberglass, labor/workmanship warranty, etc. STAY AWAY from high-pressure sales companies and the box stores.

How does that work? Plygem around here is all high pressure sales and a huge markup with their own "installers". Do a google search.

 

[HomeSealed]

How does that work? Plygem around here is all high pressure sales and a huge markup with their own "installers". Do a google search.

Honestly, it depends where you go. Around here, Softlite and Sunrise are the big "high-pressure, high- price dealers". I've heard the same about Plygem, Gorell, Okna, etc in other markets... Manufacturers would sell a snowball to an eskimo if they could, so the integrity of the dealer is really market-specific... I'll even take it a step further and say that anyone approaching $1k per window is a rip-off. A high quality product and install should be in the range of $400-$800 ea.

 

[HomeSealed]

...BTW, "their own installers" is total bs for any and all window companies, other than those "rinky-dink" local manufacturers. Even then, you would be hard-pressed to call them a manufacturer (ie: Wasco, Stanek, Champion) as all they do is purchase components manufactured by other companies and assemble them. It's like Toyota calling its vehicles "American" just because its Japanese design and Japan sourced parts are assembled in the US.

 

[gulbworks]

Great advice Homesealed. Your advice is right on when you say to choose windows with sloped sills rather than pocket/weep holes.

I purchased six large double hung windows and all of them leak in the fusion welded corners of the pockets. The manufacturer refuses to believe that his windows leak. I performed a test on the pockets (I call it a tray) and found that all six leak. I blocked the weep holes and very carefully added colored water to the tray and after an hour or so, colored water had leaked from the tray welded corners onto the framing below the window.
I have offered to demonstate the leaking but the manufacturer has not replied.

Yes I have advice too - Only buy from a well established reputable manufacturer. Spend the extra time to research thoroughly.

 

[HomeSealed]

Great advice Homesealed. Your advice is right on when you say to choose windows with sloped sills rather than pocket/weep holes.

I purchased six large double hung windows and all of them leak in the fusion welded corners of the pockets. The manufacturer refuses to believe that his windows leak. I performed a test on the pockets (I call it a tray) and found that all six leak. I blocked the weep holes and very carefully added colored water to the tray and after an hour or so, colored water had leaked from the tray welded corners onto the framing below the window.
I have offered to demonstate the leaking but the manufacturer has not replied.

Yes I have advice too - Only buy from a well established reputable manufacturer. Spend the extra time to research thoroughly.

That is a terrible situation that you have there, and is the main reason why pocket sills are undesirable. Have you taken pictures and shown them?

 

[gulbworks]

That is a terrible situation that you have there, and is the main reason why pocket sills are undesirable. Have you taken pictures and shown them?

Yes I sent pictures cleary showing the leakage but they want to believe that it is the installation.
I was told that they have sold ten thousand of these windows last year and none leak. That almost sounds too good to be true.
The manufacturer told me to put on jamb extensions, foam in the windows and install the trim/mouldings. He should have just told me to close my eyes and all would be ok! I suggested that I would not do that as it would be impossible to determine whether or not the problem had been corrected.

 

[secutanudu]

Thanks for all the great info. I will get some more info from my parents as to what exactly they are looking for, and I am sure I'll have more questions.

 

[Tangelo]

I would recommend you meet with your local building inspector for a suggestion, since they inspect the work after it done, they might have some suggestions either good or bad.

 

[HomeSealed]

I'm not a fan of vinyl windows too many issues down the road.

I've replaced 7 year old wood windows because they were rotted out. Even junk vinyl doesn't do that.... Bottom line is regardless of material, there is quality, and then there is junk. A high quality vinyl window really can't be beat in any area other than looks.

 

[HomeSealed]

Thank you Emily for dodging my points and demonstrating your total ignorance and bias on the subject.... Here is a fact: The vast majority of vinyl window manufacturers outsource their IG's (glass packages for you consumers), and purchase them from the same companies as the wood manufacturers (cardinal, PPG, guardian, etc). Therefore, your seal failure argument -which seems to be the basis of your argument- is in fact, baseless, and holds no water. As would your completely made-up statements about the glass not being made in a controlled environment, argon fill, etc. :no:Are you sure that you aren't a renewal sales person???:yes:... So now that we've debunked that statement, how exactly would a wood window be superior? Perfomance (DP, AI, U-value, etc)? Nope. Price? Nope. Warranty? Nope. Maintenance? Nope.... Did I miss anything?... As I said before, I sell EVERY window material, and I am honest about the fact that they all have their pros and cons-- it would be nice if you were as well. You might have more credibility if that were the case.

 

[oberon]

Emily,

You so need to break up your posts into smaller, more readable sections. It is VERY difficult to follow what you are saying when you have one longgggggggggg paragraph.

If someone were to go to Duluth, MN to see the Marvin plant (which was what I gathered from your post) they would be in for a very long wait since Marvin's main plant is in Warroad, MN which is northwest of Duluth a few hundred miles.

As HomeSealed said, there are good wood windows, and good fiberglass windows, and good vinyl windows. There are also junk wood windows, and junk fiberglass windows, and junk vinyl windows.

I can name vinyl companies who do label their windows just as the wood guys do, and I can name of lower end wood manufacturers who don't label their windows, just as the lower end vinyl guys don't.

I can tell you about a vinyl window that has a DP of 100, energy rating of U.15, and air infiltration of .003 CFM. I can also tell you about vinyl windows that I wouldn't put in a dog house.

My point being that you obviously don't like vinyl windows, but a long, unedited rant about the evils of vinyl really doesn't tell anyone anything other than you really don't like vinyl windows.

Maybe if you used actual, verifiable facts (and broke up your posts into manageable segments), it would make for a more objective discussion versus "you said, I said".

Just saying.......
:whistling2:

 

[HomeSealed]

I'm not even going to try to respond to all of that jumbled mess. Here's the deal though: You are trying to compare low-end vinyl products and manufacturers to high-end wood. Its just not a fair comparison at all.

Just a few points:

-Gorell, Sunrise, Softlite, Simonton, PlyGem are very well established vinyl window manufacturers with great reputations and windows that will out perform most (if not all wood products). DP 50, 60, 70 IS available on many of their "everyday windows", and they will have better U-values, AI ratings, Dp ratings, etc. Most are AAMA and NFRC certified. A well designed vinyl window will (IMO) use a sloped sill, not a pocket sill with weep holes as you described. There are various vinyl windows that have various "green" certifications (although again most are probably meaningless)... Gorell does offer hinged vinyl doors.

-Please spell Kolbe correctly. I think I've seen you write Koble 100 x's now.

-I've never seen HD sell windows for $1000+. I'm not advocating their "installed services", but I've not seen them nearly that high.

- Gorell has been energy star partner of the year for 7 years running, although that really doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot anyway. Again on the IG's, you are all wet. Most of the high quality vinyl companies outsource their IG's. Gorell no longer does its own either. You say that you aren't a slimy salesperson, then why resort to their tactics? Just be honest about the pros and cons of each product... although I guess that wouldn't work for you because you'd wouldn't be able to sell that many wood windows anymore.:thumbsup:

- Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't think that Pella is as bad as you say, but I don't think it is a world-beater either (plus their customer service is terrible). I sell them occasionally but I prefer Weathershield or Marvin in my wood lines. Even when I have sold Pella, I purchase them through a third party, and do not "receive any leads" from them.

You should really do some fact checking before you make a bunch of wild claims. Your points look like the script of a shady wood window salesman from 20 years ago.... btw, what exactly is fibrex made out of? Vinyl and sawdust. Clearly superior.:laughing:

 

[Jkslate]

Mangled horse carcass..



Mmmmmmmmmm

 

[HomeSealed]

Funny, you learn how to spell ANDERSEN correctly on your website.:laughing:

Great advertisment. :huh: More customers are gonna see your mis-spelled word than mine (check out your website)and I will spell Kolbe & Kolbe correctly. There is no Anderson Company any more, they went out of business years ago, in the early 90's. Unless your still installing Ander-s-o-n Windows, from years ago. I was typing fast and didn't spell check, I apologize for the mis spelled word "koble."
Understood. I'll be sure to point that out to my web guy... BTW, you spelled ADVERTISEMENT wrong.:laughing:

Also, your website says you install Ander"son," which uses fibrex, unless your a switch and bait contractor advertising you install Anders"e"n then installing a off band product. I install some Anderson wood windows by request. Someone as "industry savvy" as you surely knows that the fibrex Renewal product is an exclusive to those dealers. That being said, I would not install it even if I could. It is a decent product, but waay overpriced IMO.. I knew install Pella Proline, from previous posts which isn't even a mid band product!HUH??? I can't respond to jibberish. Your site mentions nothing of Marvin Windows or Weathershield? Again, a switch and bait contractor advertising a band name product and pushing a different product. Not at all. I am very upfront with my clients in that I will install any product that they like. There are certain products that I prefer and I give reasons for that.... So what does your website advertise? Oh, that's right, you prefer to make your ignorant posts anonymously.
I don't understand, if you know about the Pellaclassactionlawsuit.com that your still advertising you install a product that is going to court on a rott issue. Great customer service. Look at all the states involved in the lawsuit against Pella and the web sites. I have seen several subdivisions of these so called view to be the best Pella Windows that have rotting windows, most around 8yrs to 12yr old windows have rotten, aluminum clad poping off the styles and rails, not all the windows rott. But why take a chance. The biggest companies will always be the biggest targets for litigation. Once again, I am NOT Pella's number 1 fan, but there are far worse products out there. BTW, I've seen rotted 10 year old Anderson's as well.

I was trying to make a point on vinyl windows that most companines are crap and I should not have included Gorell Windows and Ply Gem which just posted $70.9 million dollar loss during the first quarter so lets hope they can stay in business, if they can't how good are there warranties then? Really? Come on now. Both of those companies are on very solid financial ground. Despite a 1st quarter loss(not unexpected given the circumstances), why don't you quote PlyGem's other numbers (total revenue, profitability in other periods, etc)... This is one of the largest manufacturers of building products, who incidentally is actively acquiring other manufacturers, and no, I don't mean garbage like Andersen's vinyl acquisitions... It is funny (and ironic) that you disparage HD, yet you promote their primary window offering (Andersen) as being the best.
I'd still recommend Kolbe Window triple pane than a vinyl window such as Gorrell, few a few dollars more, twice the quality product. Once again, please explain why. Do they last longer? Perform better? ...They sure do look nice though.... at twice the cost:thumbsup:
Home Depot does charge over$1000 to $1100 plus for installed Siminton(SP?) Window, which I can buy for about $150 to $175 cost. Have the Home Depot At Home Services come out and measure just to see their prices on the install which is a rip off. I have seen their prices, and they are not even close to $1000. Maybe its a regional difference... or maybe you just made that up like most everything else that you say.:yes:

You couldn't work for me any way, I'm not a manager, but you need take apart several windows and see what their made of before you say I don't know. Yes, I was wrong on a couple of statements and should not have said several things, but I was making a point, that most xyz windows rate their own windows and take measurements from the best part of the glass, instead of the center of the window. Seriously?! You do realize that the COG rating (center of glass) IS the most efficient point of a window assembly don't you? COG ratings are used by companies with inferior products to try and "trick" people into thinking that theirs is superior. The total unit rating is the REAL rating, and is what is found on the NFRC label... and btw, those ratings (and AAMA) are taken by independent third parties.

I was trying to make a statement, of why would anyone buy a Simonton Window for the same price as a Andersen Window? Why buy a triple pane vinyl window when you can spend a few dollars more and buy a Kolbe & Kolbe Triple Pane Window. Because it will last longer, perform better, and offer less maintenance. Why would any spend a $1100 for a window installed by Home Depot? I don't know. They shouldn't. When you can buy the top of the line Marvin Window and have installed for less. And why buy vinyl ''plastic'' window, when you can spend a few dollars more and get a real product. A "real" product that will be outperformed and outlasted by "plastic"??.... Again, they all have their pros and cons. Just quit the bs and be honest about it.

Its funny how all the vinyl companines state they have the best products, you have to read between the lines on the warranties to find out what your really getting and the all the gimmicks, you know because you use them.

Very true, just as EVERY manufacturer claims to have the BEST product. That is why it is incumbent upon dealers/installation companies to provide an honest assessment of each option. You might consider such an approach.