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Discussion Starter #1
Convert the 50A/240V receptacle in the garage to a sub panel. Then run one 30A/240V for a baseboard heater, one 20A/120V for a fridge and chest freezer and one 15A/120V for outlets and lighting; all through conduit to a shed just next to the garage. All of this is in very rough planning, but does the concept and numbers sound even remotely in the ballpark of feasibility?
 

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You can only take one circuit or feeder to an outbuilding. The subpanel would go out in the shed.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Interesting. The garage has that 50A circuit from the house as well as another 20A circuit going out to it already, but that was probably wired in the 50's or something like that. Can I just run the 50A from the box outside the garage to the shed to install the sub panel?
 

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" Euro " electrician
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The issue you may run into with that 50 amp circuit is numbers of conductors if you want to go with subpanel route you must have full 4 conductors ( black et red et white of course green ) and the other circuit you have there now once you get the subpanel running you will have to ditch the other circuit due it is no longer used per NEC codes.

So only single MWBC can be used to the detached buildings.

Merci,
Marc
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Are you saying that if the current 50 doesn't have the 4 separate conductors and a new one has to be run, that the existing, what would then be unused 50 has to be pulled out? Just want to clarify, cause the 20 will still be live to power he garage lights and outlets and door.

So, say I get the set up of the sub panel figured out, does what I want to do with it sound accurate/possible?
 

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To install a subpanel you will need Hot, Hot, Neutral, and ground. If the current 50A receptacle does not have the above you would need to run the appropriate conductor(s) to utilize a sub.

Your additional questions will depend on whether the garage is attached or detached.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
What is currently existing are 2 branch circuits from the main panel at the house; one 50A, one 20A; going to a detached garage. The 50A circuit ends in a receptacle and I'm thinking was for a welding rig of some kind. I also had a detached shed, about 250 sq ft, that has no electrical service right now. What I'd like to do is outlined above. Here's a shot of the main panel; the 50A circuit is at the top. I know it ain't pretty, but it's what I've got to work with!

image-3093724962.jpg
 

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What they are saying is the wire coming off the 50 has to have 4 wires a red, a black, a white, and a green. If you don't have all 4 you will have to run a new wire that has all 4 to your new sub panel.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
pro handyman said:
What they are saying is the wire coming off the 50 has to have 4 wires a red, a black, a white, and a green. If you don't have all 4 you will have to run a new wire that has all 4 to your new sub panel.
I got that, but I was now wondering about the rest of the plan from there on out, should I get to the point where I actually get a sub panel installed.
 

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Is that 200amp service coming into the house? Me personally if you don't have 200amp service coming into the house I wouldn't go adding a bunch of sub panels. What I would do is update panel first.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I am not actually sure what the service is, so I do need an electrician to come out and help me figure that out. It'd be so much easier if I just had some main breakers, but that is not the case. I did figure though that if I don't add circuits to the main, and just run within what's already established, it would work out okay.
 

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It probably would work out fine. But with today's appliances and electronics. It's always good idea to upgrade your service to a 200amp. Cause if you over load your panel it could cause a fire. Electrical can be easy but very dangerous.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
There's so much electrical work I need to do/have done it'd be a ton of work and money. Necessary, but more than I want to get into now. I just really wanted to get something going in this shed to make it a somewhat useful space. Lights would be a good start.
 

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There will be couple projects you will be facing anyway.,

First of all the breaker box you post the photo is Zinsco that have alot of quriks and it will be a good time to plan to replace that panel but the big question is do you have main breaker outside or what ? ( Is that exsting breaker box is used for whole house useage ? )

The other thing with Zinsco you will not find any breaker larger than 60 amp due the bussbar design they are not famous for that. ( I have see them burnt the bussbar up pretty good )

Once you answer my first question there will be two parts on that one.

Second thing with all the subpanels remember the ground and netural always stay seperated.

Third thing if you going to use direct burial cable or use the conduit (pipe ) generally I rather use the pipe eaiser to deal with it and make sure it is proper depth. ( most codes will say 18 inches with conduit but DB at 24 inches. but that can varies a little depending on your local codes )

What size is your main breaker is now ?

Merci,
Marc
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The photo you see is the main panel. No main breaker. The house's original fuse panel was effectively made into a sub panel and is powered by one of those two 30A double breakers. I have a whole host of questions surrounding that set up, but that's fuel for another post. I know the main panel needs replacing, but that alone is $2000 worth of work. It's a can of worms.
 

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The photo you see is the main panel. No main breaker. The house's original fuse panel was effectively made into a sub panel and is powered by one of those two 30A double breakers. I have a whole host of questions surrounding that set up, but that's fuel for another post. I know the main panel needs replacing, but that alone is $2000 worth of work. It's a can of worms.
I kinda figure that.

But peel one layer off at time you will get there.

For 100 amp common sized panel typically not that high as you qouted but again that depending if overhead drop or underground lateral ( genrally underground is little higher than overhead drop's )

I don't know how much more room you can add a circuit in the exsting Zinco but really for myself I rather just replace that main panel then go from there and use new subpanel in the garage.

You can sized the garage circuit like 60 amp if you don't have welder but once you have welder you may want to " hevey " up to 100 amp subpanel and use the Alum conductors they are cheaper than copper espcally with larger sizes.

Merci,
Marc
 

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You can NOT run your house off of 1 30amp breaker. Seriously change that main panel. That's just asking for trouble.
PHM.,

The OP did stated there is a 2 pole 30 amp circuit to exsting fuse box but the big question I do know know which type of fuse box if that is common 4+2 verison or what .,,

Second thing you should be aware there some history on some older home they used have 30 amp service* and I know there is still few homes in Wisconsin still have that. In France where I am living now there are couple home that used 16 amp service ( just a hand full left for full house size but for apartment that kinda common on older ones )

Merci,
Marc

Note : * some do have 30 amp 120 volts and some have 30 amp 120/240 volt service. ( France only have 240 volts or 415Y240 depending on the connection )
 

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I'm sure there are homes that run off of 30amp. But its been my experience with todays electrical demands. It's best to do away with fuse boxes and upgrade your home. Around here with help a guy could change out his service myself for less then $600.
 

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I'm sure there are homes that run off of 30amp. But its been my experience with todays electrical demands. It's best to do away with fuse boxes and upgrade your home. Around here with help a guy could change out his service myself for less then $600.
I put that part bold to make sure I do understand your wordings.,

that means you do the service changeover with a helper with you ?

Merci,
Marc
 
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