[jdsmn21]

Hi everyone -

Just wondering how you pros and seasoned DIY guys deal with projects that are in areas around critters, like bats, mice, rats, spiders, etc. Have any stories?

The reason I ask - I have to get my butt in the attic and do some wiring, but I know as I've heard some scratching - there's something up there - mice, rats, bats - and the idea just creeps me out! I know and read everybody doing various projects in other 'less than comfortable' places, like attics and crawlspaces. How do you deal? Or am I the only wuss out there? :smile:

 

[de-nagorg]

Walk softly and carry a big STICK! :surprise::vs_karate:


ED

 

[Bud9051]

Hi jd,and welcome to the forum.
Most of what you mentioned are harmless. But knowing they can come and go is a big problem, so while you are up there consider some serious air sealing. Critters move from basement or crawlspace up to the attic next to plumbing vents or chimney spaces, and so does your expensive conditioned air. A double win to block the critters and reduce your energy costs.

The really bad part about them being up there (and all through your walls) is the mess they leave behind. They don't go outside to do their business.

Check for droppings and you can probably identify what they are by that.

As for being concerned about running into something bad, wasps are about the worst I have encountered. I didn't know my old body could move that fast.

I don't see your state listed but (and I probably shouldn't mention this) snakes can be scary. I know, I shouldn't have.

For the record, I have been in many attics and those wasps are all that has ever run me out.

Bud

 

[jdsmn21]

Thanks guys!

I'm in Southern Minnesota - close to the Iowa border. We just bought our first house last October - a 1929 two story with a basement. It has its quirks and questionable layout issues, but it was pretty well kept by an older couple before they moved to a retirement home. The biggest quirk is the K&T wiring which feeds one outlet and a pull chain overhead light in each bedroom on the second story (with unused attic overhead).

I need to update the wiring, and I figure I need to get my butt in gear before the summer heat turns that attic into a sauna!

I see Amazon sells full Tyvek suits with hoods - that and a face shield and I might be good! (Along with a can of wasp spray and maybe a .22 :smile

 

[Bud9051]

With a house that old you will face many issues. Look for balloon construction where you can see up through the exterior (sometimes interior) wall cavities from basement to attic. Even if they have been filled with insulation they offer a path for air flow and critters. All cavities should have a 2x? block top and bottom.

K&T must go as you know I I recommend not just discontinuing it, but removing it so no questions about it being a problem.

Watch out for asbestos and lead paint, high probability of both.

As for the noises, if you find droppings it is a good place to set a few traps. Until you find and seal all access points it is a good idea to be reducing the population. Note, fall is when the mice like to move inside for the winter.

Bud

 

[Arrow3030]

IMO one of the biggest pains in older homes is the lathe and plaster. It falls apart and you can be left with hundreds of pounds of loose debris. If you end up demolishing it, get a bunch of 5 gallon buckets, don't fill up a 30 gallon can (especially on the second floor). There will most likely be patches if you re wire due to all the structural support for the lathe and plaster.

 

[jdsmn21]

Thanks Bud! I'd love some more of your input!

The upstairs ceilings are flat - but they meet the walls at an angle - ie: The walls go up 6 feet straight 90 from the floor, then they meet the pitch of the roof, go another 2-3 feet, then the flat ceiling starts. I don't know if there's a term for it (maybe you do?)

My plan was to run two 12-2's from the basement to the 2nd story, with one dedicated to the bathroom, and run the three bedrooms and hall lights (maybe, might run hall lights off a main floor circuit to keep light in case a breaker trips). My idea was to 'daisy chain' three junction boxes over the three bedrooms, and run wire down the walls to the outlets/ switches as needed.

So given how my ceilings are - do you think I'd run into any stops between the attic and the wallspace? What's the best way to seal those edges?

As far as lead paint and asbestos - yeah, I probably have a bit of both. Fortunately, the paint is tight and not peeling. As far as asbestos - the inspector we hired before buying the house noted that the attic joists are filled with vermiculite - which I understand can possibly have asbestos. Surprisingly, with only 4-6 inches of vermiculite, the house was a lot warmer than the newer house we rented prior, with significantly lower utility bills! But I'm all for putting in some money to seal it up to save money down the road! We intended to blow in some insulation after the wiring, so the sealing point you made is well received.

Thank you!

Jon

 

[jdsmn21]

IMO one of the biggest pains in older homes is the lathe and plaster.

Yeah, we have a lot of plaster. Aside from some hair line cracks (which I imagine the house settles and causes), it seems really sound and good condition.

You have any advice on cutting in holes for old work electrical boxes? I read somewhere a sawzall is a bad idea as it rattles the plaster loose. I was thinking of trying the oscillating tool with a carbide blade or one of those half moon grout blades, but I'll take any advice you have?

Wondering your opinion on old work boxes with plaster walls in general. Since TR receptacles seem to take a little more force going in and pulling out, is there a risk of one of the kids ripping the box completely out of the wall when trying to unplug something? Would one of those "Madison Electric Smartboxes" be better because they screw to a stud?

 

[jbfan]

Only problem with the smart boxes is getting the wires into the clamps.
Not so much if you run new wire and do it outside the wall, but replacing an existing box is tough.

 

[Bud9051]

You should get the vermiculite tested. Any painted walls that have lead paint, when you cut them you generate lead dust that will be detected for years.

I call it a half story, Google "half story framing old house pictures" and select more pictures for many examples.

In your case the cavities go from basement to the top of your half wall, but they may also open into each ceiling joist cavity, if not fire blocked.

With the rafters running to the top of the half wall it makes it difficult to provide proper ventilation of the roof above. Much to learn.

How big of a project do you want J? To get the fire blocking in place, proper insulation, remove the K&T and rewire, proper roof ventilation, you are looking at a full gut of the upstairs, right down to the studs.

To make that suggestion worse, new codes will often require updates to bring everything up to minimum code levels, electrical, plumbing, and insulation. Are you pulling a permit for this work or have you asked what is needed? And, if the walls have been painted with lead paint there are safety procedures that should be followed.

I feel bad.

Bud

 

[Arrow3030]

There's no guarantees when cutting into plaster. My advice is don't get discouraged when it cracks. I like to cut 1/2 the plaster on one side, then cut the other side leaving about an 1/8", then finish cutting the first side and finish by breaking or cutting the remaining 1/8" on the second side.

 

[Oso954]

We intended to blow in some insulation after the wiring, so the sealing point you made is well received.

I hope you are not thinking of blowing insulation over vermiculite.

I wouldn't even bother testing the vermiculite for asbestos. I assume it will test positive and have it removed. I apply the money that I would have used for asbestos testing towards the removal.

 

[jdsmn21]

Thanks a lot guys for all the tips. And the doom and gloom Bud!

I wouldn't be surprised if walls are open all the way to the roof - it would explain why I see melted snow around the edges. I'm afraid a full gut isn't in the cards right now - if we had that kind of money, we'd have just bought a newer house! The roof was redone about 6 years ago I believe, with a bunch of those rectangle vents and two whirly turbine vents. Hopefully they addressed any venting issues.

I did talk to city hall - city doesn't require permits, but need county inspector after the fact. She gave me a two page 'code cheat sheet' i guess of recent updates, etc (ie: discussing AFCI and GFCI, maybe also TR receptacles - don't recall off hand). We don't require BX or conduit like some areas do.

I did pick up a 30ft inspection camera that connects to my phone - I'll have to tie a weight to it and drop it down the walls from the attic and see what I can find/ how far I can go.

Another question - there is a sewer stack (PVC) that runs through the middle of the house vertically to the utility room in the basement where the breaker box is. If there is enough of a gap between the stack and the hole cut - can I pull wire through that, or is there a code requirement of distance from plumbing?