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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Everyone, hoping someone with some electrical expertise can help us out here, because we are completely at a loss.

So......


Basically, when doing an EMF reading of our home,
we found that the ground wire coming from the Main electrical panel was reading an insane 900 Milligaus.

For some perspective, the CDC suggests a 'acceptable' level to be somewhere between 0.3-2.8 Milligaus.

Doing some step by step investigation to get to the root of the problem, we discovered that when we disconnected the ground wire from the Water Pipe main where it was grounded, the WATER PIPE MAIN itself was reading 2000 Milligaus.

and then because the ground wire was no longer attached, and not rerouting some of the EMF through it, ALL the copper piping in our house, through the heaters, etc., shot up from .6 Mg to 40 Mg

We then turned off all the breakers in the house from the electrical panel, (but not the main breaker), and the water pipe had a reading, but lower, down to 300 Milligaus.

We turned off the main from the electrical panel, and then the reading went down to 0.


Why would a water main have HIGH EMF (electromagnetic frequency) readings?

Why would the high EMF still be present even when all the breakers are turned off from the main panel (we have no sub-panel)?

Only when the Electrical Main is thrown, and ALL the power flowing into the panel is off, does the EMF readings go down to 0.

Could the problem still be within the wiring of our home somewhere, even though the high EMF is not 100% reduced until the Main is thrown?

Because it appears that the problems then would lie in the main wiring of the electricity flowing into the electrical panel, no?



Thanks for reading this really long post,
thankful and appreciative for any advice or thoughts
 

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How exactly are you taking these readings?

You'll always have magnetic coupling between the power bars and the grounding plane. As more higher frequency noise migrates onto the utility side, from various sources, the coupling will be stronger.

There's very little, if any solid evidence that strong magnetic fields cause any real health issues.

PS. Another, and far more traditional use of EMF, is ElectroMotive Force. (another way of describing voltage)

Cheers!
 

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Not an electrician but disconnecting the ground from your main panel doesn't sound good. Unless there is another source of grounding then you would be without a neutral going back to the pole. Corrections welcome.

Bud
 
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Hi Everyone, hoping someone with some electrical expertise can help us out here, because we are completely at a loss.

So......


Basically, when doing an EMF reading of our home,
we found that the ground wire coming from the Main electrical panel was reading an insane 900 Milligaus.

For some perspective, the CDC suggests a 'acceptable' level to be somewhere between 0.3-2.8 Milligaus.

Doing some step by step investigation to get to the root of the problem, we discovered that when we disconnected the ground wire from the Water Pipe main where it was grounded, the WATER PIPE MAIN itself was reading 2000 Milligaus.

and then because the ground wire was no longer attached, and not rerouting some of the EMF through it, ALL the copper piping in our house, through the heaters, etc., shot up from .6 Mg to 40 Mg

We then turned off all the breakers in the house from the electrical panel, (but not the main breaker), and the water pipe had a reading, but lower, down to 300 Milligaus.

We turned off the main from the electrical panel, and then the reading went down to 0.


Why would a water main have HIGH EMF (electromagnetic frequency) readings?

Why would the high EMF still be present even when all the breakers are turned off from the main panel (we have no sub-panel)?

Only when the Electrical Main is thrown, and ALL the power flowing into the panel is off, does the EMF readings go down to 0.

Could the problem still be within the wiring of our home somewhere, even though the high EMF is not 100% reduced until the Main is thrown?

Because it appears that the problems then would lie in the main wiring of the electricity flowing into the electrical panel, no?



Thanks for reading this really long post,
thankful and appreciative for any advice or thoughts
I haven't experienced it myself, but I did find this online: https://www.safespaceprotection.com/emf-health-risks/emf-health-effects/emfs-from-underground-pipes/
 

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Not an electrician but disconnecting the ground from your main panel doesn't sound good. Unless there is another source of grounding then you would be without a neutral going back to the pole. Corrections welcome.

Bud
A grounding conductor connected to a water pipe is not the return path for electrical current back to the transformer. There is a separate neutral conductor for that.

A ground's primary function is lightning protection and voltage stabilization. It is bonded to the neutral conductor in the first main after the meter. After that the ground and neutral are always separate.

If the neutral was disconnected or broken some current would try to travel back to the transformer via the earth and the grounding electrode system consisting of a water pipe and/or ground rods.

The transformer has a ground rod which is connected to its neutral.
 

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Please note that the symbol for "Milligauss" is mG (NOT Mg)
(just as the symbol for "Millivolt" is mV)

(Mg could mean Megagauss, but that should be written as MG))

The conventions are that
all prefixes up to "k" (for kilo) are lower case and all prefixes from "M" (for mega) are upper case.
and
when a unit is named after an individual, the unit symbol is upper case - (or starts with an upper case letter e.g. Pa for pascal.)

(See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system)
 

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Disconnecting the ground wire from the water meter is extremely dangerous when an "Open Neutral" exists. Many people have died doing that, including water company employees.
For now, I would be more concerned about voltage on the ground wire.
Are you experiencing bright or dim lights?
 

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I know very little, but if someone connected a neutral wire and a ground wire together somewhere in the house (other than at the main panel), any power travelling on the neutral would also be travelling on the ground wire. When that ground wire is connected to your metal pipes, again, voltage would show on your pipes. That seems to be confirmed by the fact that, when you turned off the main breaker, these readings went to zero.

Just a guess. Hopefully JoeD or some other pro can give a better answer.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #12
How exactly are you taking these readings?

You'll always have magnetic coupling between the power bars and the grounding plane. As more higher frequency noise migrates onto the utility side, from various sources, the coupling will be stronger.

There's very little, if any solid evidence that strong magnetic fields cause any real health issues.

PS. Another, and far more traditional use of EMF, is ElectroMotive Force. (another way of describing voltage)

Cheers!
Thanks for the reply,

I bought some cheapo meter on amazon,

EMF Meter KKmeter Electromagnetic Field Radiation Detector Handheld EMF Detector Digital LCD Radiation Meter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B9WHGN3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_6gJcDb209N4C2



but then had PSEG (our electric utilities provider)

Come out to the house to do readings.
Turns out that cheapo meter was pretty accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Please note that the symbol for "Milligauss" is mG (NOT Mg)
(just as the symbol for "Millivolt" is mV)

(Mg could mean Megagauss, but that should be written as MG))

The conventions are that
all prefixes up to "k" (for kilo) are lower case and all prefixes from "M" (for mega) are upper case.
and
when a unit is named after an individual, the unit symbol is upper case - (or starts with an upper case letter e.g. Pa for pascal.)

(See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system)
Haha, word man, thanks for the schoolin.

I love learning!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Disconnecting the ground wire from the water meter is extremely dangerous when an "Open Neutral" exists. Many people have died doing that, including water company employees.
For now, I would be more concerned about voltage on the ground wire.
Are you experiencing bright or dim lights?
Absolutely agree, we reconnected the ground to the water pipe after our experiment to see how it affected the EMF readings.

We’ve checked the ground for voltage, and thankfully none is there.

You mention there might be an open neutral somewhere.

The confusion we’re having is that when the ground is not connected to the water pipe, the pipe itself has a tremendous mG reading, 2000 mG

So my inexperienced and uneducated guess is that there may be a second ground somewhere attached to this same pipe, with a neutral tied in somehow.

Does that make sense?

Otherwise, how would the water main have high EMF, (like something similar to when a ground and neutral are bonded past the electric main somewhere), when NOTHING is attached to the water main that we can see?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I know very little, but if someone connected a neutral wire and a ground wire together somewhere in the house (other than at the main panel), any power travelling on the neutral would also be travelling on the ground wire. When that ground wire is connected to your metal pipes, again, voltage would show on your pipes. That seems to be confirmed by the fact that, when you turned off the main breaker, these readings went to zero.

Just a guess. Hopefully JoeD or some other pro can give a better answer.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
Thanks jeffmattero, I replied to I love snow regarding some of your thoughts.

Would love to know What u think.

Much appreciation
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hi Everyone, hoping someone with some electrical expertise can help us out here, because we are completely at a loss.

So......


Basically, when doing an EMF reading of our home,
we found that the ground wire coming from the Main electrical panel was reading an insane 900 Milligaus.

For some perspective, the CDC suggests a 'acceptable' level to be somewhere between 0.3-2.8 Milligaus.

Doing some step by step investigation to get to the root of the problem, we discovered that when we disconnected the ground wire from the Water Pipe main where it was grounded, the WATER PIPE MAIN itself was reading 2000 Milligaus.

and then because the ground wire was no longer attached, and not rerouting some of the EMF through it, ALL the copper piping in our house, through the heaters, etc., shot up from .6 Mg to 40 Mg

We then turned off all the breakers in the house from the electrical panel, (but not the main breaker), and the water pipe had a reading, but lower, down to 300 Milligaus.

We turned off the main from the electrical panel, and then the reading went down to 0.


Why would a water main have HIGH EMF (electromagnetic frequency) readings?

Why would the high EMF still be present even when all the breakers are turned off from the main panel (we have no sub-panel)?

Only when the Electrical Main is thrown, and ALL the power flowing into the panel is off, does the EMF readings go down to 0.

Could the problem still be within the wiring of our home somewhere, even though the high EMF is not 100% reduced until the Main is thrown?

Because it appears that the problems then would lie in the main wiring of the electricity flowing into the electrical panel, no?



Thanks for reading this really long post,
thankful and appreciative for any advice or thoughts
I haven't experienced it myself, but I did find this online: https://www.safespaceprotection.com/emf-health-risks/emf-health-effects/emfs-from-underground-pipes/
This is a great reference.

And also be a great explanation as to why the high EMF Reading is coming straight from the water main, when no ground wire is attached

However, what leaves me stumped is how this high EMF Reading goes away once the main breaker is thrown.
 

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Absolutely agree, we reconnected the ground to the water pipe after our experiment to see how it affected the EMF readings.

We’ve checked the ground for voltage, and thankfully none is there.

You mention there might be an open neutral somewhere.

The confusion we’re having is that when the ground is not connected to the water pipe, the pipe itself has a tremendous mG reading, 2000 mG

So my inexperienced and uneducated guess is that there may be a second ground somewhere attached to this same pipe, with a neutral tied in somehow.

Does that make sense?

Otherwise, how would the water main have high EMF, (like something similar to when a ground and neutral are bonded past the electric main somewhere), when NOTHING is attached to the water main that we can see?
It is possible that you are getting one of your neighbor's return current through your ground. It doesn't happen very often, but a loss of a neutral at a neighbor's house will have their grounding conductor carry the return load through the ground to the nearest neutral which may be yours.

Are any of your nearest neighbors experiencing electrical problems such as dim lights?
 

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I am not sure how old your house is. I own some rental properties that were built in the '40s, and are wired with two conductor (hot and neutral) cable rather than 3 conductor (hot, neutral and ground).

In the years before I owned one of these, someone I guess needed a 3 prong outlet in the bathroom. They accomplished that by running a green wire and connecting it to the 3 prong receptacle and to the cold water pipe below the sink. I have also seen in another house where they did something similar, but connected the ground wire to the cold water pipe behind the tub.

In these same houses, again, probably to get a 3 prong outlet in the bedrooms, they hooked a jumper wire between the silver screw and the green screw on the new bedroom receptacle.

If someone did both of these things, they would be putting neutral voltage on the ground wire. If, as described, the ground wire was connected to the copper water line, they would also be putting voltage on the pipes.

None of this may be what is happening in your case, but I am trying to come up with an explanation for what you are seeing.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Absolutely agree, we reconnected the ground to the water pipe after our experiment to see how it affected the EMF readings.

We’ve checked the ground for voltage, and thankfully none is there.

You mention there might be an open neutral somewhere.

The confusion we’re having is that when the ground is not connected to the water pipe, the pipe itself has a tremendous mG reading, 2000 mG

So my inexperienced and uneducated guess is that there may be a second ground somewhere attached to this same pipe, with a neutral tied in somehow.

Does that make sense?

Otherwise, how would the water main have high EMF, (like something similar to when a ground and neutral are bonded past the electric main somewhere), when NOTHING is attached to the water main that we can see?
It is possible that you are getting one of your neighbor's return current through your ground. It doesn't happen very often, but a loss of a neutral at a neighbor's house will have their grounding conductor carry the return load through the ground to the nearest neutral which may be yours.

Are any of your nearest neighbors experiencing electrical problems such as dim lights?
Interesting thought.

I will inquire with neighbors on both sides.

I’m also going to ask like a crazy person if I can do a reading on their water main.

If they have some crazy readings too, Im goin straight down that rabbit hole and gonna put in a call to our utility company and see if they’ll come and check to make sure all their wiring is correct and everything is properly grounded on the utility poles.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I am not sure how old your house is. I own some rental properties that were built in the '40s, and are wired with two conductor (hot and neutral) cable rather than 3 conductor (hot, neutral and ground).

In the years before I owned one of these, someone I guess needed a 3 prong outlet in the bathroom. They accomplished that by running a green wire and connecting it to the 3 prong receptacle and to the cold water pipe below the sink. I have also seen in another house where they did something similar, but connected the ground wire to the cold water pipe behind the tub.

In these same houses, again, probably to get a 3 prong outlet in the bedrooms, they hooked a jumper wire between the silver screw and the green screw on the new bedroom receptacle.

If someone did both of these things, they would be putting neutral voltage on the ground wire. If, as described, the ground wire was connected to the copper water line, they would also be putting voltage on the pipes.

None of this may be what is happening in your case, but I am trying to come up with an explanation for what you are seeing.

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk
yeah, fantastic.

This is a very good thought, which would explain the EMF coming from the pipe, even though there isn’t a visible connection to the main pipe. Could be some jerry rigged bull crap hidden somewhere in the house. (How did you discover and fix this problem BTW?)

House was built in the fifties, they put an extension on about twenty years ago, and I’m guessing did all the updates to the electrical then.
We have quite a few three way switches in the house, so our first plan of attack is to find the junction boxes for these and make sure they didn’t gang up all the neutrals together.
Other plan of attack is to open up the circuit breaker and try putting all the neutral on one bus strip, and all ground on the other. They’re all mixed up right now.

Supposedly this doesn’t matter on the main circuit breaker, would only affect a sub panel (but we don’t have one).

But what the hell, gonna start off small before we start ripping walls open.
 
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