[roachslayer]

I have a situation where I have 2 slots available but would like TWO 2 pole breakers there. I noticed I can get a Quad such as this:

Two 2 pole 30A and Two 2 pole 20A​

However, what I would really like is this:

Two 2 Pole 60A and Two 2 pole 30A​

I can't find any such thing. The closest I can find is a 50/30, but not a 60/30. Doh! Is this a unicorn and I need to plan a different approach?

Brand is Eaton, BR type.

btw, a different approach would mean calling my electric co. I have a panel outside my house with the main line going to a 4 slot bus, which has a 2 pole 100A running to the house, and the other 2 slots are available but I have two different needs (one 30A for a welder right behind that wall, and one 60A for a detached garage).

 

[Arrow3030]

You'd Ave more luck finding a unicorn. Take the two spaces available in your main for a 4 circuit sub panel. Or upgrade your main panel

 

[Speedy Petey]

What do you need a 60 for that a 50 wouldn't do?

 

[Cement_Frank]

Why not add a small load center?
30/50 quad is as close as you gonna get. its a Bq230250

 

[MrElectricianTV]

I have a situation where I have 2 slots available but would like TWO 2 pole breakers there. I noticed I can get a Quad such as this:

Two 2 pole 30A and Two 2 pole 20A​

However, what I would really like is this:

Two 2 Pole 60A and Two 2 pole 30A​

I can't find any such thing. The closest I can find is a 50/30, but not a 60/30. Doh! Is this a unicorn and I need to plan a different approach?

Brand is Eaton, BR type.

btw, a different approach would mean calling my electric co. I have a panel outside my house with the main line going to a 4 slot bus, which has a 2 pole 100A running to the house, and the other 2 slots are available but I have two different needs (one 30A for a welder right behind that wall, and one 60A for a detached garage).

First check the labeling in your panel to see if it is approved for thin circuit breakers. Not all of them are.

As someone else mentioned, use the 2 slots to feed a new sub-panel. That will give you plenty of room for expansion in the future.

 

[roachslayer]

What do you need a 60 for that a 50 wouldn't do?

Good Q. I'm running a 2 pole 60A to a detached garage that has a welder, table saw, lights, etc., and from there, it runs another 2 pole 30A to a second outbuilding. I'm tempted to go higher than 60, if anything.

First check the labeling in your panel to see if it is approved for thin circuit breakers. Not all of them are.

As someone else mentioned, use the 2 slots to feed a new sub-panel. That will give you plenty of room for expansion in the future.

I can't find a label about this, but since you mentioned it, I'm now almost certain thin breakers are not ok. Have a look at this pic. This box is the service main. It has 100A running into the house. The Red/Black/White goes into that wall to a 220v receptacle (for welder) and the 4-4-4-8 (blk/wht/grn) runs out to the detached garage.

I'm going to see about doing as suggested, adding a sub-panel. Unicorn averted.

As you can see, my lines for the outbuilding are already in this box, cannot move, but I have plenty of #4 copper here and can easily run it to an adjacent panel as mentioned.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Why not just put a 90A right next to that 100A???

 

[roachslayer]

Can't double up on the breaker though, right? I have 2 different things to feed.

I'm thinking put a 100A there, run to a 100A on a sub-panel to the right of this box. Then from there I can put whatever I want, such as a 60A for the outbuilding, and 30A back to that red wire for said welder at this location.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Is there not two empty breaker spaces to the right of that 100A?

Edit - OHHHHHH, you have two new things to feed, not just the one showing. Sorry, I misunderstood.

 

[roachslayer]

Yep, I shoulda clarified, I've got two 2-pole things to feed (4 slots needed) from that remaining 2-slot space there.

 

[Arrow3030]

Looks like you can put duplex breakers in your panel. Doesn't really matter though. Put a four circuit sub panel to the right of the main and come out of the new sub with your welder and garage circuit. Get a feed through lug kit to come out of the main and into your sub using #4 copper.

 

[Arrow3030]

You might want to do a load calc because upgrading your service might make more sense.

 

[rjniles]

Why not terminate the outbuilding feed to the existing 2 slots in the meter panel. Pull the welder feed back to the inside panel. If no spaces in the inside panel, add tandem breakers or a small sub panel inside.

While you can add a sub panel outside, it will be more expensive and harder to make look presentable.

 

[Arrow3030]

It becomes a value of time over material with this suggestion. It depends on how easy getting a 30A out of the existing inside panel is.
IMO a small surface sub next a surface main is presentable if you're pragmatic.

 

[roachslayer]

Bonding and splicing questions for 2 new panels (attached and detached)

I have this box outside my house. It is the service main with meter. It has a 100A breaker here which leads to a 100A main service panel in the house. That panel (in the house) has neutral bonded to case/ground.

Question 1)
I plan to use the remaining 2 pole slot here for another service panel inside the house (using #3 copper, directly behind this wall where that red wire is, in the attached garage in fact). Does that panel need to have neutral bonded? If not, why not? How is it treated different than the other (above mentioned) service panel, when both are in this building, both connected to this main box with 100A breakers?

Question 2)
Does the above mentioned new panel need to have a main cutoff? If so, can I simply use a 100A standard 2 pole, backfed? Or do I need to run it from here to a 100 Amp 22k AIR QOM1 main cutoff breaker?


I also have a detached garage and its leads come in from the pole you see at the bottom with these wires hanging out. I was originally going to wire them to a 60A breaker right here in this outdoor box, BUT, I decided I wanted to add the aforementioned panel in this house (behind this wall as mentioned).

Question 3)
If this remaining slot it used by my new panel behind this wall, I obviously would need to connect my detached garage to that new panel. If I do not have enough wire to reach that panel behind this wall, can I splice/extend it (4-4-4-8 copper)?

Question 4)
Normally, I know outbuildings need their sub panels NOT bonded. However, the scenarios I've seen where that applies is when running from the main panel in the house. Is that the case regardless of whether running from a bonded panel at the house, or directly from this box as shown here?

 

[brric]

All bonding should be done at the disconnect shown in the photo. Subsequent panels should be fed with four wire feeds with no neural ground bonding. A four wire feed and ground rods required at the outbuilding.

 

[beenthere]

Merged threads.

 

[roachslayer]

@beenthere, Not sure why the thread was merged and new topic ditched. This post (now #15 here) is quite a bit different than simply asking about quad breakers.

 

[Smokeshow]

1) It looks like the neutral is already bonded to ground in that panel (it should be). The neutral should not be bonded to ground at any subsequent sub-panel, and they should all be fed with 4 wires (as it looks like the existing is, and the new is setup for).

2) A disconnecting means is required at a convenient point on any building, as close as possible to where the conductors enter. This means that the panel inside the garage does not need a main breaker, as you will have a breaker to turn it off on the building. The detached garage will require a panel with a main breaker, or a properly sized disconnect before the panel.

3) I would try to avoid this if possible, but it is ok to splice in a panel if necessary. Just make sure you use the proper panel to do so.

4) See #1

I would highly suggest getting a permit for this work if you haven't already. We're talking about a job that requires a bit more attention than replacing a receptacle. Please do yourself a favor and get the appropriate permit.

 

[beenthere]

@beenthere , Not sure why the thread was merged and new topic ditched. This post (now #15 here) is quite a bit different than simply asking about quad breakers.

Its a continuation of the first thread, based on the answers from the first thread. To come up with the same end result of power to 2 additional locations.