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Good Evening - 1st post here.

We are upgrading the electrical service in our home. We moved into a home with a desperately overloaded panel, meter in basement, and torn service entry cable, which led to water getting into the meter box (which is in the basement) and corrosion on meter contacts. Needless to say we are replacing the whole system with 200A

In addition, upon contacting our service provider , they informed us in the current service entry location , the overhead wire was dangerously close to the brick exterior of the fireplace chimney & needed to be moved. They chose a location around the back of the house , and are insisting we move the meter box to the exterior as well.

We have purchased the following:

Meter Box
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...ass-Overhead-Meter-Socket-UHTRS202B/100346355

Main Panel
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...h-Cover-Value-Pack-HOM4080M200PQCVP/301278214

We installed circuits to the new main panel & have temporarily hooked up to the old meter box so we can have electric while we wait for the Electric Company to come make the transition.

I will upload diagram I made up as to where we plan to dig around Family Room addition and enter into the basement to the main panel.

Here is an overhead view on the project, suggested run of cabling & some details
Service Run.png

Here is a Rear View of the Meter Box and Service drop attachment
Service Attachment.png

Need help with :

(1) As I am trying my best to follow our Electric Company's requirements, I need help locating a 4" lag screw attachment point . This is a direct screenshot of Elec. Company's requirement
Attachment Requirement.PNG

The largest I have been able to find was this connector here. Which is only 2 1/4 and does not look the sturdiest.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halex-2-1-4-in-Service-Entrance-SE-Porcelain-Wire-Holder-60222/100132652

(2) Do people generally cover this thick gauge cable with something? The cable is rated for direct burial, but I would hate to see someone put a shovel through a 200A service wire that's buried 2 ft. below!

(3) Exact wire choice. I read in the NEC handbook that USE 4/0 (Underground Service Entry) Aluminum wire can be used for 200A Service. I do not however see any Multi-conductor USE rated wire. This is all I could find for USE 4/0
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...ck-Stranded-AL-USE-2-Cable-27287290/205001905

Will this 2-Conductor w Neutral suffice (URD 4/0) ? It says in the description it is rated for direct burial, but I did not see this in NEC.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...d-AL-Sweetbriar-URD-Cable-55418499/205001902]

This is what we will be using for Meter to service drop (SEU 4/0):
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwi...Gray-Stranded-AL-SEU-Cable-13097199/205001801


Thanks in advance for helping me solve these issues.
 

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2" conduit.....although i see that you are going to have more than 270 degrees of bends. I just did the same thing with moving the service entrance to the left of the current meter location.

Lag screws you can go up one size. its what i did the POCO wants 1/4" and i couldnt find it so went to 3/8.

Why not put it through the foundatio if you can or under the floor. Just a thought
 

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It sounds as if you have already installed the panel. So at the POCO's suggestion, you DIDN'T install an exterior panel. It would have been easier and would have eliminated the possibility of water intrusion. The panel you have chosen is an interior panel.
 

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Set a disconnect next to the meter and run a cable through the house. Both interior panels would now be subpanels.
 

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Nice effort with the drawings, thank you for that clarity.



1. Seems like you'll need a channel bracket clevis spool, one that you can install any lag screw of your choosing using an impact tool. The kind you linked is for hand tightening, which would be tedious at 4" long, and is typically used for high voltage fencing.



2. A line marker ribbon is required by NEC 300.5(D)(3). The concern with the perimeter of the house is that it is common to plant there, but 2' is pretty deep to dig. Note that digging up around your foundation will loosen soil which can let water in (an issue for northern climates). Be sure to address site drainage.


3. Triplex URD is an option if it is a UL Listed assembly of USE cables. NEC doesn't define the URD assembly as an approved direct burial conductor type. The URD you buy should have a USE (or other approved) designation on the individual jackets. You can check with your local code official for their take.





Note that NEC 300.5(D) requires physical protection of underground service conductors as they exit grade (i.e. raceway). And NEC 230.50(B) requires physical protection of service entrance conductors (i.e. raceway). Also refer to NEC 230.54 for the overhead service requirements. I don't see raceway identified on your drawing.



I would prefer to locate the OCPD at the meter secondary. This will make for safe working conditions for you in the future (killing the panel remotely is the safest method, and a breaker is safer than pulling the meter). A disconnect is another option but you wouldn't have overcurrent protection. I've worked on panels with an external disconnect and it's a really nice option. This would also let you run the conductors inside the house immediately, if you so chose.



Looks like a fun project.
 

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You must have a disconnect by the meter. From there run conduit and pull THHN wire. Do not excede 4 -90° bends without a pull box.
This is not an NEC requirement.
 

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You can easily get a disconnect with overcurrent protection.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Here I was thinking no one had responded yet...

Thanks for all the feedback so far guys, I really appreciate it.

It sounds as if you have already installed the panel. So at the POCO's suggestion, you DIDN'T install an exterior panel. It would have been easier and would have eliminated the possibility of water intrusion. The panel you have chosen is an interior panel.
Sorry for confusion, the POCO has mandate meter box to be moved outside , not the panel.


Set a disconnect next to the meter and run a cable through the house. Both interior panels would now be subpanels.
I had considered this as my primary option, assuming I had a crawl space under the floor in family room. I made an incision to find out what the situation was , and to my disappointment I have a concrete slab directly under floor joists in that room. I don't even think there's space to staple the wire without being in the way of floor nails. To me, it's easier and better to dig around exterior and enter into basement , & that way rids the necessity of a disconnect.


You must have a disconnect by the meter. From there run conduit and pull THHN wire. Do not excede 4 -90° bends without a pull box.
As I understand it , this is not a requirement unless you have SE wire more than 5 feet on the INSIDE of the building.

This is not an NEC requirement.
Agree, thanks!
 

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When I say disconnect I mean means of disconnect and definitely fused or a circuit breaker. Direct burial is an accident waiting to happen. If it gets damaged, NOTHING will or can be done to turn it off short of pulling the meter.
The ground rods are supposed to be at the first means of disconnect, not the meter (at least in my area).
 

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Discussion Starter #12
2" conduit.....although i see that you are going to have more than 270 degrees of bends. I just did the same thing with moving the service entrance to the left of the current meter location.
I was hoping to get away with direct burial because it should be easier and less expensive. I know how hard it is to bend these cables, I couldn't imagine pulling through that king of conduit ..

Lag screws you can go up one size. its what i did the POCO wants 1/4" and i couldnt find it so went to 3/8.
Im looking for *longer service attachments* or ones with longer lag screws to be more precise to accommodate POCO specifications.

Why not put it through the foundatio if you can or under the floor. Just a thought
As said before. Slab would require complete tearout of floor in the room, and disconnect.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Nice effort with the drawings, thank you for that clarity.
No problem!

1. Seems like you'll need a channel bracket clevis spool, one that you can install any lag screw of your choosing using an impact tool. The kind you linked is for hand tightening, which would be tedious at 4" long, and is typically used for high voltage fencing.
I googled and this looks perfect.

2. A line marker ribbon is required by NEC 300.5(D)(3). The concern with the perimeter of the house is that it is common to plant there, but 2' is pretty deep to dig. Note that digging up around your foundation will loosen soil which can let water in (an issue for northern climates). Be sure to address site drainage.
I was reading of people marking and was thinking this in combination with handing the next owners the map I made. I did not know of the code requirement.

3. Triplex URD is an option if it is a UL Listed assembly of USE cables. NEC doesn't define the URD assembly as an approved direct burial conductor type. The URD you buy should have a USE (or other approved) designation on the individual jackets. You can check with your local code official for their take.
Thanks again , exactly what I was looking for. I may just call the inspector directly.

Note that NEC 300.5(D) requires physical protection of underground service conductors as they exit grade (i.e. raceway). And NEC 230.50(B) requires physical protection of service entrance conductors (i.e. raceway). Also refer to NEC 230.54 for the overhead service requirements. I don't see raceway identified on your drawing.
Meaning conduit is required at Meter side? I will look into this to understand better.


I would prefer to locate the OCPD at the meter secondary. This will make for safe working conditions for you in the future (killing the panel remotely is the safest method, and a breaker is safer than pulling the meter). A disconnect is another option but you wouldn't have overcurrent protection. I've worked on panels with an external disconnect and it's a really nice option. This would also let you run the conductors inside the house immediately, if you so chose.
Would you be able to give me an example on how to add this , it may be safer than burying a wire under the garden.

All I could find when searching for outdoor disconnects was $300 manual disconnects. Which is generally why I decided to go with digging around home.

Would 2 OCPD in series interfere with one another ? I seem to recall this . Maybe this was only in relation to GCFI.

Looks like a fun project.
Sarcasm? Really, thanks for all your help.
 

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When I say disconnect I mean means of disconnect and definitely fused or a circuit breaker. Direct burial is an accident waiting to happen. If it gets damaged, NOTHING will or can be done to turn it off short of pulling the meter.
The ground rods are supposed to be at the first means of disconnect, not the meter (at least in my area).
I will take this into consideration, the more I talk about it here, the more I'm thinking disconecct + cut a channel through the subfloor through the entire room, clamp direct to concrete slab?

I'm really indecisive now.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Set a disconnect next to the meter and run a cable through the house. Both interior panels would now be subpanels.
If I was to add OCPD such as a standalone breaker adjacent to meter , I would then have to add a separate bus bar for grounds , correct? As you mentioned it would become a sub-panel.
 

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Meaning conduit is required at Meter side? I will look into this to understand better.

Meaning physical protection for any conductors routed exposed. I wouldn't use non-metallic conduit for these conductors, I would use IMC or RMC.



Would you be able to give me an example on how to add this , it may be safer than burying a wire under the garden.

All I could find when searching for outdoor disconnects was $300 manual disconnects. Which is generally why I decided to go with digging around home.

Would 2 OCPD in series interfere with one another ? I seem to recall this . Maybe this was only in relation to GCFI.


Perfectly fine to have two OCPD in series of equal amperage. Also ok to have series GFCI since two levels of GFCI is required for any hospital service (main and branch).



You could put a thermal mag circuit breaker in a small NEMA 3R enclosure and comply if it is service entrance rated. I would do this adjacent to the meter with a conduit nipple between to save on wiring hassle. Note that this location would have to comply with the rules for a service entrance for grounding and bonding - which would require you pull an EGC with your feeders and keep your N-G bond at the service entrance. Maybe this is more hassle than it's worth, but I do like the ability to safely de-energize an entire panel remotely. Be sure to include a padlock hasp to lockout the breaker when working on the panel. Always remember that after the initial N-G bond, you keep neutrals and ground separate - especially important for sub panels after the service entrance. I can explain why if needed.



If you just install a service entrance rated non-fused disconnect then you wouldn't be defining it as the first OPCD. Your code official would need to weigh-in here for their interpretation of grounding and bonding. NEC 250 is a pretty long section, I can look into it deeper, if needed. What I don't know off the top of my head is if you need to pull an EGC to the main panel or if dedicated ground rods are sufficient at the non-fused disconnect.





Sarcasm? Really, thanks for all your help.

Not sarcastic, I love this stuff. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Set a disconnect next to the meter and run a cable through the house. Both interior panels would now be subpanels.
Can I confirm some facts with you?

Is it correct to assume the cabling before 1st means of disconnect would not need to be grounded (as there are 2-hot and 1-neutral from service attachment)

At first means of disconnect (OCPD adjacent to the meter) This is where grounding rods will be , and from here, it will be necessary to extend 3 conductor plus ground all the way to the interior panel - which will then be a sub-panel. Where I will have to separate ground and neutral.

Bonding to water main should be done at sub panel location.
 
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