[tsouzee]

Hello everyone. Hope everyone is doing well during these crazy times.

Our kitchen setup has 4 single bulb fluorescent light fixtures . Recently one of them started buzzing pretty loud upon turning on and today I started smelling a burning smell.

I got up there and 2 of the 4 ballasts were in bad shape, woukd get very hot and the wiring around them started to melt.

So for now I would like to replace the ballasts. I rent this home and am not interested in upgrading to LED at this time.

My problem is these ballasts are REALLY OLD. I put them in a Google search and the word vintage keeps coming up.

Anyway, I would like help finding a suitable replacement. The ballast is for a single 4 foot fluorescent bulb (40 watt). A T12 bulb. The ballasts I am finding online have multiple wires coming out of them compared to this setup.

I have a picture attached. There are two red wires on one side and a blue, black and beige wire on the other side.

Any help/recommendations are greatly appreciated.

 

[Oldmaster]

I would think an electrical supplier could get you one, but it would be cheaper to take the ballast out and put an LED in.

 

[Jim Port]

The new ballast will have a wiring diagram on the front. Call the landlord and ask them to have it repaired.

 

[seharper]

These ain't your father's fluorescents!

You'll love em. Your new fluorescents will be silent, won't flicker ever, start right up in the cold, and the light is fantastic if you get modern 90 CRI tubes for 'em. This is better light than is readily available for LED, and it's all top tier suppliers like Sylvania and GE, so they won't croak after a year.

First, you'll need to decide if you want to stay with the obsolete, inefficient T-12 type fluorescent tubes (1-1/2" diameter) or seize the opportunity to switch to T-8 type tubes (1" diameter). This is the time to do it! New T12 tubes are fantastic, but who knows how long they'll keep making them? I myself have gone T8.

Your old tube is an F40 T12. A modern T8 tube would be F32 T8. Pick a ballast that drives 1 of those. The same ballast can't drive both; you must choose.

You can make an aesthetic choice for brightness with "ballast factor". The old ballasts probably had a 1.0 ballast factor. A 0.8 ballast factor will be 20% dimmer. A 1.2 ballast factor will be 20% brighter. (it's OK to overdrive the tubes like that).


Next, decide on start style (which decides how long the tubes last):

- Instant-start ballast. These ballasts are cheapest, they start the tube by blasting it with voltage and ignoring preheat. This only takes 1 wire per tube end (you must merge the 2 wires). This instant hard-start shortens the tube life. It's a trade-off.

- Rapid-start ballast. Better ballasts, easier on the tube during startup, so a better choice if you turn the lights on/off frequently. Have about a 1/2 second stutter when starting up (used for preheating).

- Programmed-start ballast. Faster start than rapid-start unless it's very cold, then they preheat as long as it takes. VERY easy on the tube, so great for a) cold, b) tubes that are very hard to change, or c) tubes often turned on/off e.g. bathrooms or motion sensors (couldn't do that before!

I myself prefer programmed start. But I realize instant is cheaper.

Most instant start ballasts and *a few* rapid/programmed ballasts are labeled 2-lamp, but will also support 1-lamp (you must cap off the unused wires!) Don't assume it; read the product listing. For instance the Philips IOP-2P32-N is a programmed start ballast that does support 1 lamp, and is sanely priced.

Make sure the new ballast is the same length as the old ballast. There are only a few standard sizes.

In buying tubes, pick the color temperature you want (classic is 4100K) then pick a bulb with a high CRI (Color Rendering index). 90 CRI is readily available, some old T12s are 98 CRI! Don't settle for less. They make the stuff they're lighting up look really good!

 

[Wiredindallas]

Your old ballast is magnetic and all new ones (unless someone has some old stock magnetic on the shelf) are electronic. You will likely have to reconfigure the wiring. But really, don't waste time and money. Go direct wire ballast bypass LED tubes.

 

[tsouzee]

Thank you for everyone's responses. @seharper I appreciate the details. In researching further, it seems that going T8 may be easier because they would fit the same prongs, and the ballasts for T8 are more readily available.

My next question is:

1) Would it be okay to have 2 fixtures on T8 bulbs/ballasts and 2 fixtures on T12? I have 4 independent fixtures in total but it looks like whoever had wired it looped a single power line through all of them.

 

[Missouri Bound]

Thank you for everyone's responses. @seharper

1) Would it be okay to have 2 fixtures on T8 bulbs/ballasts and 2 fixtures on T12? I have 4 independent fixtures in total but it looks like whoever had wired it looped a single power line through all of them.

That would be fine....except you can expect them to look different.
But if two ballasts are bad it most likely won't be too long before the other two start to go. Changing them out now will eliminate any chance of them burning.
And yes, they do catch fire.

 

[seharper]

Thank you for everyone's responses. @seharper I appreciate the details. In researching further, it seems that going T8 may be easier because they would fit the same prongs, and the ballasts for T8 are more readily available.

You got it!

1) Would it be okay to have 2 fixtures on T8 bulbs/ballasts and 2 fixtures on T12? I have 4 independent fixtures in total but it looks like whoever had wired it looped a single power line through all of them.

Well, I *do* that, but only because I have hundreds of them to change. Given that you have only four, I would do all four in fairly short order.

Unlike LED tube replacements, you won't have any trouble getting colors to match. Just keep all tubes the same color (e.g. 4100K, or your choice) and if old tubes don't match well, get new tubes with higher CRI.

And by the way, I don't know if this will arise as an issue -- but if 2 fixtures are right next to each other and permanently coupled to each other -- you could just use a 2-lamp ballast to run both lamps. You'd have to extend the wires; use the wires already in the fixture.

Also for splicing wires inside fluorescents, you want the small "blue" wire nuts. I go through hundreds of em!

That would be fine....except you can expect them to look different.

IME matching won't be a big problem. Unlike LED "tubes", real fluorescent tubes from reputable makers are consistent at the same color temp (e.g. 4100K).

Where old will differ from new is CRI -- but you don't see that looking at the light. You see that looking at *the stuff the light is lighting up*.

But if two ballasts are bad it most likely won't be too long before the other two start to go. Changing them out now will eliminate any chance of them burning. And yes, they do catch fire.

Exactly. They were installed at the same time, they run at the same times, they'll be in roughly comparable condition. Fluorescent failure is predictable.

Old ones yes, but they mostly just dribble tar all over inside the fixture. That's hell *enough*.

Your old ballast is magnetic and all new ones (unless someone has some old stock magnetic on the shelf) are electronic. You will likely have to reconfigure the wiring. But really, don't waste time and money. Go direct wire ballast bypass LED tubes.

Yeah, I'm *trying* to get behind that. But fact is, quality isn't there. They fail inexplicably at a very high rate, and they flicker, for Pete's sake. How is that even---

LED is awesome for a lot of things and I use it for all those. Fluorescent tube replacements are not ready for prime-time IMO.

Especially when real fluorescent has gotten so remarkably good. Modern fluorescents set a very high bar.

 

[Missouri Bound]

You got it!

Unlike LED tube replacements, you won't have any trouble getting colors to match.
.

I was referring to light output and putting new bulbs next to old bulbs.

 

[seharper]

I was referring to light output and putting new bulbs next to old bulbs.

Good point, and ballast factor will be a ... factor. If the old ones are 100BF and you install 120 BF ballasts, you might notice...

 

[tsouzee]

Thanks again everyone and @seharper for the detailed responses. I was doing some research yesterday and as mentioned above it seems that maybe going with direct bypass led tubes may actually be easier/cleaner. All of the ballasts available would require some rewiring based off the older magnetic ballast that was in there.

I was wondering if anyone can help with my additional questions below:

1) As mentioned earlier, the four fixtures are running off a single power source (I posted a pic of a sketch below). In this case, would it be okay for me to run two fixtures with a direct bypass LED bulb and leave the other as is (for now)? Just want to make sure I get it right before I cut the other two ballasts out. Also, want to make sure it is okay to do this because the main hot and neutral get tapped into each fixture and run through.

2) Single side LED bulbs okay? Looks like all you need to do is power one prong with the hot and the other with the neutral on one side.

3) I was reading I may need to change the tombstone ends? This should be fine because the ones in there are very brittle anyway. Would just need to find the right ones because these are held in by a screw. Unshunted?

Thanks again and I appreciate the support. While I am capable of wiring, it is the concepts that take me time to learn, and this house is old and many things aren't the way they are supposed to be.

Thanks.

 

[Wiredindallas]

It is fine to power all 4 with the same source no matter which type they are. The ends will need to be non-shunted and will probably have to remove the bracket they are mounted on to slide them into a slot. Perhaps remove an end cap to access. Most bi pin ends are non-shunted.
Single end feed is ok.

 

[rjniles]

Buy LED tubes that are dual ended power. Hot to one end of tube, neutral to other end. That way you reuse the tombstone without regard to how they are wired.

Sent from my RCT6A03W13E using Tapatalk

 

[tsouzee]

Buy LED tubes that are dual ended power. Hot to one end of tube, neutral to other end. That way you reuse the tombstone without regard to how they are wired.

Sent from my RCT6A03W13E using Tapatalk

This is what is in there now. This one is actually in better shape than some others which are cracking. I just need to find a pack of replacements for them that come with the little nut and screw assembly.

 

[seharper]

Oh, well if you have access to the tombstones like that, that's easy. You'll have no trouble wiring up real fluorescent ballasts if you want to go that way. Just snip the wires off at a convenient distance and splice them as the ballast diagram lists. You're either merging the 2 wires to 1 for instant-start, or connecting 2 wires to 2 with rapid/programmed start.

These will play fine with single-ended LEDs, but I do not like those because they put 120V so close together.. But I've seen people go out of their way to buy double-ended, but what's actually in the box is single-ended. And the seller is like "who cares, wire it that way, you'll never change it because these are best quality, never fail"...

 

[CaptTom]

Wow, I didn't know anyone was still putting in ballasts and florescents. That seems so primitive. I've gone totally LED everywhere I had floresents. Just about every business which can it throwing them out and replacing them with LEDs. There are companies which do nothing but those switch-overs. Not only is it a lifetime solution, and more energy efficient, but it's a huge improvement in lighting quality.

 

[afjes2015]

.


tsouzee: In your first post you state -

... I rent this home...

You should not be doing any electrical work at all since you rent this place. Are you aware of the fact that if something happens that you will be held liable for damages?


What you should do is notify your landlord. Even if your landlord says "do it" you may still be held liable. Your landlord must have an electrician come in. Let your landlord select the electrician so you do not end up with any liability.


.

 

[tsouzee]

.


tsouzee: In your first post you state -

... I rent this home...

You should not be doing any electrical work at all since you rent this place. Are you aware of the fact that if something happens that you will be held liable for damages?


What you should do is notify your landlord. Even if your landlord says "do it" you may still be held liable. Your landlord must have an electrician come in. Let your landlord select the electrician so you do not end up with any liability.

Thank you. I totally agree but since I had to cut one of the ballasts out (it was overheating and stared to melt the wires around it), at this point it's nothing more than a quick rewire and a new bulb type. I thought running LED bulbs was much more involved, but sourcing ballasts to work with the current setup seemed to be much more difficult.

I think the real liability is having 40 yr old ballasts running the kitchen lights. 😬

 

[Missouri Bound]

Did I miss the post where you contacted your landlord?
He should be fixing that, not you.
If he gives you the go ahead to have it fixed...then HAVE IT FIXED by an electrician and send him the bill.

 

[tsouzee]

Did I miss the post where you contacted your landlord?
He should be fixing that, not you.
If he gives you the go ahead to have it fixed...then HAVE IT FIXED by an electrician and send him the bill.

I did not contact him. He would have no issue looking at it but I'm in NYC and with this whole COVID situation I would prefer to just order some LED tubes and do it. They're about 10 bucks a bulb vs the 3 bucks a bulb I was paying for the T12 replacements.