DIY Home Improvement Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Before repainting my ceilings I did some drywall repair work. Two of the areas that had major repair work done are showing through the first top coat. I sanded to what I thought was good enough, primed, sanded and now top coated with first layer of pm200.

Im doubting the final top coat will hide the history of the repairs. Some of the area can be slightly felt, other parts can only be seen. The pictures dont show the flaws very well, but to give you an idea take a look.

Do I need to remove more mud?



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
579 Posts
It's hard to tell but it looks like it needs sanding and more mud to me.I would sand it as smooth as I could get it and skim it out wider.The wider you skim it the less gradual the patch will be therefore less noticable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
565 Posts
It's hard to tell but it looks like it needs sanding and more mud to me.I would sand it as smooth as I could get it and skim it out wider.The wider you skim it the less gradual the patch will be therefore less noticable.
yep:yes: also at least a 10 inch drywall knife is a must .your right. no top coat will hide that
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,829 Posts
That looks like some heavy texture on that ceiling. If it is a texture then the game will have to change. For now a 10" blade as ltd suggested and you may even need to wet sand the edges with a sponge if the sandpaper is not getting into the texture to smooth it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It's hard to tell but it looks like it needs sanding and more mud to me.I would sand it as smooth as I could get it and skim it out wider.The wider you skim it the less gradual the patch will be therefore less noticable.
It started out as a straight crack from wall to wall. Muded and taped it and it was spread out about 3' wide...
yep:yes: also at least a 10 inch drywall knife is a must .your right. no top coat will hide that
Ok thank you for saving me the time and material in another coat.
That looks like some heavy texture on that ceiling. If it is a texture then the game will have to change. For now a 10" blade as ltd suggested and you may even need to wet sand the edges with a sponge if the sandpaper is not getting into the texture to smooth it out.
It's a smooth ceiling, the only minimal texture is from the roller pad. So wet sanding will accelerate taking out the edge? I was thinking of even trying a palm sander, especially considering it sounds like I'll need to mud again..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,606 Posts
I would suggest even with a 10" knife you may need to go 10" on both sides of the crack the farther you go out the less noticeable the repair and make them thin coats. Then on a ladder with a bright light held at an angle you can pretty much tell what is going to show when painted.
 

·
Rubbin walls since'79
Joined
·
2,518 Posts
Personally I think wet sanding doesn't get as smooth and flat as using a hand sander that has a flat platform. The light while sanding is essential.
I'd use a 12" blade, but a 10 is sure better than a 3.
You need to fan it out so it leaves no hump. or indentation.

This painting stuff is tricky, eh? lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Personally I think wet sanding doesn't get as smooth and flat as using a hand sander that has a flat platform. The light while sanding is essential.
I'd use a 12" blade, but a 10 is sure better than a 3.
You need to fan it out so it leaves no hump. or indentation.

This painting stuff is tricky, eh? lol
Sand and then fan out more mud?

Yes I wonder how much it would've cost for labor to repair walls and paint...
 

·
Rubbin walls since'79
Joined
·
2,518 Posts
If what you have done has been painted, its really hard to sand then. So I think all of us are saying it is fanning out the joint compound better and sanding that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If what you have done has been painted, its really hard to sand then. So I think all of us are saying it is fanning out the joint compound better and sanding that.
Ok that sounds better, I was going to use a palm sander otherwise to break through the paint and primer layers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
851 Posts
After you've feathered it out and sanded, get up on your ladder with a bright flashlight. Hold the flashlight parallel against the ceiling and shine the light over your repair. This should give you a pretty good idea of whether or not you've feathered it out well enough at that point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
After first coat I did some sanding... Applied 2nd coat only to area concern rather than entire repair, like first coat. Hopefully after sanding it will have improved. Ive been hearing about level 5 finishes, and using the water & mud skim coat applied with a roller... Everything Ive seen on this is on new drywall vs. drywall repairs. Anyone have experience with this finishing method?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
579 Posts
Drywall repairs can be tough on us so I can imagine you are having a little trouble.I still say skim it out wide.12" knife on both sides of the joint. Pull the knife tight against the ceiling.The more excess you can wipe off wet the less you have to sand off dry.It may take you a few tries but you can get it flattened out.
 

·
paper hanger and painter
Joined
·
8,301 Posts
After first coat I did some sanding... Applied 2nd coat only to area concern rather than entire repair, like first coat. Hopefully after sanding it will have improved. Ive been hearing about level 5 finishes, and using the water & mud skim coat applied with a roller... Everything Ive seen on this is on new drywall vs. drywall repairs. Anyone have experience with this finishing method?

You will never end up with a level 5 finish, no matter what method you use and using a roller to apply mud certainly will not work for you. There is no earthly reson for a level 5 finish on a ceiling. You are way over thinking this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,336 Posts
Ive been hearing about level 5 finishes, and using the water & mud skim coat applied with a roller... Everything Ive seen on this is on new drywall vs. drywall repairs. Anyone have experience with this finishing method?
You don't need a level 5 finish. What you need is to get a level 4 finish not perfect but near perfect. I sometimes apply level 4 with a roller, but that's a different matter. You need to thin the compound a bit to do this, but that doesn't make it a level 5 finish. It's just the 3rd compound layer.

You probably should use a 12" taping knife, but if you have a 10" now that should work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,336 Posts
Pull the knife tight against the ceiling.The more excess you can wipe off wet the less you have to sand off dry.
This is basically true but it can be overdone. Taping knives are flexible and if you press hard you're creating a curved surface and defeating the purpose. You need to fill gaps between the flat ceiling and the hump caused by the joint repair, so you want the knife to keep as flat an edge as possible while still pressing the compound flat (but not beyond flat).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You will never end up with a level 5 finish, no matter what method you use and using a roller to apply mud certainly will not work for you. There is no earthly reson for a level 5 finish on a ceiling. You are way over thinking this.
I was thinking applying the thinned out mud with a roller and then scraping it away would be better than sanding and priming. I guess gravity would be the issue? I would like the repairs to be hidden...

You don't need a level 5 finish. What you need is to get a level 4 finish not perfect but near perfect. I sometimes apply level 4 with a roller, but that's a different matter. You need to thin the compound a bit to do this, but that doesn't make it a level 5 finish. It's just the 3rd compound layer.

You probably should use a 12" taping knife, but if you have a 10" now that should work.
I thought a level 5 is achieved with water and all purpose mud, with cake batter consistency, applied by roller, scraped off and then sanded. You have me confused.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,606 Posts
This is basically true but it can be overdone. Taping knives are flexible and if you press hard you're creating a curved surface and defeating the purpose. You need to fill gaps between the flat ceiling and the hump caused by the joint repair, so you want the knife to keep as flat an edge as possible while still pressing the compound flat (but not beyond flat).
Just a correction Jeff on a knife 8" or larger there should already be a curve in it if you look down the blade. That is why I use a flat trowel. If you are not careful whice way the curve is the corners can leave tracks. (It's in Myron's book). And junky no matter you will still need to sand some and prime.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,336 Posts
I thought a level 5 is achieved with water and all purpose mud, with cake batter consistency, applied by roller, scraped off and then sanded. You have me confused.
It is. You don't need that.

What I'm saying is that Level 4 can also be applied with all purpose compound if it is thinned slightly (not as thin as cake batter). It can still be applied with a roller. Not many people are aware of that but it works well. I'm not sure why chrisn said it "certainly won't work for you", but maybe because he was thinking of a Level 5 finish, when you need to get your Level 4 finish correct before a Level 5 finish would even help, even if you did it.

Level 4 means putting the third layer of joint compound over the joints. Level 5 means putting all over the entire wall, like a thick layer of paint almost.

The third layer of joint compound can't be applied with a paint roller. Myron Ferguson explains this idea in his drywall book.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,336 Posts
Just a correction Jeff on a knife 8" or larger there should already be a curve in it if you look down the blade. That is why I use a flat trowel.
Some knives are flat and some have a slightly curved blade. Some trowels are flat and some have a slightly curved blade. I assume your knife is curved and your trowel is flat, but they're not all like that.

For the knives, it doesn't matter much because they're normally so thin and flexible that a little too much pressure is still going to curve them inward toward the wall, and not fill in the gap very well. Typically trowels are firmer and harder to flatten or curve to the wall.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top