HELP, Please.. Do I really need this work done????

1. You have only 1 main breaker which is feeding two sub-panels; you will need to locate where they are junctioned and ensure that the splice is made according to code; otherwise your "feeder" conductors will not meet code.

I see 2 main breakers, not one.

Also, as these are aluminum conductors, you will have to terminate into each breaker, splice or buss by applying an anti-oxidant compound;" high resistance connections (causing fires) will result without its use.

Anti-oxident would be required, but I don't know how they can see it isn't there. I can't tell if it is or isn't. It is an easy fix if it isn't there.




Additionally, you will be limited to 60 amp sub-panels as a result of the size of the main over-current protection device (main breaker); this is a serious hindrance to you as a 60 amp panel has only 12
spaces and cannot have 'stacked' breakers installed (half size).

None of this statement is true.


Furthermore, you will have to add new grounding to you home which include two 10' ground rods (6' apart from each other) and a cold water pipe bond, bonded before and after the meter (uninterrupted and without splices). If you have a re-bar ground (concrete encased electrode) you may substitute that for ground rods, assuming local code allows the substitution. Cold water bonding is required if there
is metallic water pipes in the house, even if on a private well.

Unless there is a local amendment, the rods would only need to be 8' long. I do see some sort of main ground in the main panel. It is the larger, solid copper wire. Where it goes, I couldn't tell you.

2. Your panels are both Bryant panels; they are not made any longer NOT TRUE and the only non-Bryant breakers UL listed for retrofit replacement cost approximately $25 each; NOT TRUE both of your panels have "stacked"
breakers which increase the number of circuits in the panel, but do not meet current code for interruption; NOT TRUE as you are sharing neutral wires between phases and circuits, the breakers will have to be
'joined' together for a common trip; your breakers cannot be ganged together, and no retrofit breakers in that style exist at a reasonable price (more than $150.00 last time I looked). I don't see any multi-wire branch circuits in either panel.


Bryant (type BR) breakers can still be bought. They might be the least expensive out of the major brands. BR breakers are manufactured by Cutler Hammer now.

3. The addition of a sub-panel next to either of these existing panels is not an option due to the grounding system and the feeder wires that currently exist; you would spend more to bring the panel
into compliance BEFORE you add the sub panel than you would by removing it altogether.

I would not add another sub panel either, but "not an option" is debatable in my opinion.

4. Aluminum conductors are dangerous and unreliable. You should replace them ASAP. I am absolutely serious about this; they are a hazard to your life and the lives of your family.

AL conductors can be dangerous. However, the type of AL being used in your electrical system is very common in today's electrical world. I see no safety issue with them other that to verify anit-oxident has been applied.

5. The additional circuits required for you to bring your home into compliance with the NEC, IBC and any/all state/local building codes will require a panel with a minimum of 30 spaces (150 amp panel); even a direct replacement with a new panel in current manufacture will not be rated or sufficient to receive the additional load and circuits; your only option is to replace the panels.

There is no NEC code to the number of spaces a panel must have. The size of the service (100A, 150A, 200) would depend on a load calculation based on what appliances are in the home.

6. Your current setup, were it to remain as it is with no modification, disallows the addition of a transfer switch and shunt-trip modules for the attachment of a generator or other sources of non-grid current.

From what I see, it is possible that a transfer switch would be possible.

7. Your panels are dangerous! The panel is no longer manufactured because of serious engineering flaws; with age and use the design flaws pose an unacceptable risk to life and property.

Not true

I urge you to replace the panels and the aluminum feeders.

I wouldn't

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jeminnick said:

1. You have only 1 main breaker which is feeding two sub-panels; you will need to locate where they are junctioned and ensure that the splice is made according to code; otherwise your "feeder" conductors will not meet code. Also, as these are aluminum conductors, you will have to terminate into each breaker, splice or buss by applying an anti-oxidant compound;" high resistance connections (causing fires) will result without its use.

This panel have duex ( Two ) main breakers so this is kinda typical for this type of set up ( have differernt electrician to confirm the rating to make sure )

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Additionally, you will be limited to 60 amp sub-panels as a result of the size of the main over-current protection device (main breaker); this is a serious hindrance to you as a 60 amp panel has only 12
spaces and cannot have 'stacked' breakers installed (half size).

Non ., That have no limit on that all and the stacked breaker as refered to twinner or tadaem breakers they are allowed as long it is listed in the panel listing of approved breakers.


Furthermore, you will have to add new grounding to you home which include two 10' ground rods (6' apart from each other) and a cold water pipe bond, bonded before and after the meter (uninterrupted and without splices). If you have a re-bar ground (concrete encased electrode) you may substitute that for ground rods, assuming local code allows the substitution. Cold water bonding is required if there
is metallic water pipes in the house, even if on a private well.

Ya only need 8 footer rods (2) which it is very common item unless stated differnt in the local code requirement.

2. Your panels are both Bryant panels; they are not made any longer and the only non-Bryant breakers UL listed for retrofit replacement cost approximately $25 each; both of your panels have "stacked"
breakers which increase the number of circuits in the panel, but do not meet current code for interruption; as you are sharing neutral wires between phases and circuits, the breakers will have to be
'joined' together for a common trip; your breakers cannot be ganged together, and no retrofit breakers in that style exist at a reasonable price (more than $150.00 last time I looked).

First of all there is Bryant breakers and still avaiable to get them now the other thing is both panel there is NO MWBC in either one at all.

Only couple minor code voliations but that can be corrected pretty quick.

For the breakers The BR series by Cutler Hammer still widely aviable so you can get them in big box store without issue.

3. The addition of a sub-panel next to either of these existing panels is not an option due to the grounding system and the feeder wires that currently exist; you would spend more to bring the panel
into compliance BEFORE you add the sub panel than you would by removing it altogether.

I don't think you need other subpanel at all. just do the load demand caluation to see how much room you have in your panels and go from there.

4. Aluminum conductors are dangerous and unreliable. You should replace them ASAP. I am absolutely serious about this; they are a hazard to your life and the lives of your family.

I have used Aluminum conductors in both USA and France without issue. All it have to be done properly that it.

5. The additional circuits required for you to bring your home into compliance with the NEC, IBC and any/all state/local building codes will require a panel with a minimum of 30 spaces (150 amp panel); even a direct replacement with a new panel in current manufacture will not be rated or sufficient to receive the additional load and circuits; your only option is to replace the panels.

The bare bone minuim size in USA side is 100 amp size and again do the load caluation to see how much room you have in the caluaction and you can go larger size if you are planning to add more items down the road.

6. Your current setup, were it to remain as it is with no modification, disallows the addition of a transfer switch and shunt-trip modules for the attachment of a generator or other sources of non-grid current.

I can see the possiblty of adding a transfer switch maybe two depending on the layout of the circuits.

7. Your panels are dangerous! The panel is no longer manufactured because of serious engineering flaws; with age and use the design flaws pose an unacceptable risk to life and property.

Not really at all. Bryant panels are not bad at all not like other panels which we do see alot worst than this.

I urge you to replace the panels and the aluminum feeders.

My comment in Bleu and the Alum conductors are not bad at all if done right in first time.

Merci,
Marc

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electures said:

This statement really bothers me. Nowhere in the NEC does it require an existing dwelling be brought up to the current code every time the NEC is changed. Unless it is some sort of local amendment or requested by the owner, it is not required.

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sublime2 said:

I just had to post.
I want to applaud all of the pro sparkys for stepping up so quickly and saving this guy potentially thousands of dollars in needless repairs. To me, it's threads like this that make me happy I found this place!
Well done guys! You ALL Rock!!

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ddawg16 said:

A big ditto.....

I've been watching this one all day waiting for the responses....outstanding....

Now...quick question....

The picture that shows the meter to the side....then two breakers (both 100A?) back to back....I'm assuming this is the feed to the 2 sub-panels? I've never seen anything like that before.

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