[Shplad]

Hi everyone:

Newbie here. Let me emphasize, I know next to zero about HVAC, so please try to keep it as non-technical as you can. I need to choose a new furnace to replace my old Coleman Evercon.

Split-level house in Toronto, Canada. My old Coleman Evercon 100,000 BTU just died. I was also told it was major overkilll for my house size and that I would be fine with a 60,000 to 80,000 BTU model.

The people that I dealt with in the past are recommending a York TM9E. I was happy about that until I read the reviews. The reviews on the Web are not so positive - they average about 2.4 out of 5 stars.

Can anyone tell me how likely I am to run into problems with this unit, and/or whether I should consider some other units in the same price range? My first priority is reliability.

I'm looking for single stage with a PSC motor, for cost and reliability reasons. I don't need any fancy features.




Thanks

 

[user_12345a]

Online reviews are not very useful because most problems are caused by bad installations. I wouldn't hesitate to get a york or most other brands provided the furnace is suitable for the application.

Even 80k furnace is large and most homes in toronto can heat on 60k or less. If what you have is mid efficiency, a new 80k at 96% would put out nearly as much heat as what you have now.

The ducts also need to be assessed to see if they can handle the airflow.

Now, if the house has zero insulation or is large, possible you need more than 60k.
Best way to size is by doing a heat loss calculation with accurate inputs - https://www.loadcalc.net/

TM9E is single stage - for a bit more money you can get a TM9Y, 2-stage version of the same thing which runs at 66% capacity most of the season resulting in less noise and more consistent heating.

Insist on combustion air from outside.

If you end up with a 80k btu furnace, get a media filter which keeps the unit spotless inside without restricting airflow too much. The 1" pleated filters can be very restrictive on larger furnaces due to high airflow requirements.

 

[user_12345a]

I'm looking for single stage with a PSC motor, for cost and reliability reasons. I don't need any fancy features.

Just saw this part.

They aren't made any more due to energy regulations.

All of the new ones have basic ECM blower motor including the TM9E.

Zero evidence 2-stage is less reliable than single stage - parts out of warranty are just a little more expensive. (different control board, ventor motor and gas valve, extra pressure switch - otherwise the same)

The higher end units - 2-stage variable (more advanced ecm motor), modulating variable get very pricey to repair out of warranty.

I think york is a pretty good brand when it comes to part costs. So is goodman.

Carrier, trane - you may have to pay through the nose after the warranty.

 

[Shplad]

user:

Wow, thanks. That's a lot of info. and quick too. I was told by my dealer that while that they found they were replacing more parts on the two-stage units, and that the the parts ware significantly more expensive.

Also, I only plan to be in this house another year or two. I was looking for a condo to move to when Covid hit.

I saw loadcalc, but I don't know all the details of my house. I'm not even sure what some of those things mean...and I don't think you're going to be willing to step me through a lot of it.

Are there other brands I should consider?

 

[yuri]

If you only plan to be in the house for a year or two buy a basic Goodman furnace. Most furnaces should last at least 5 years w/o any repairs.

 

[user_12345a]

Find a good dealer, brand not that important especially when looking at single stage.

Parts costs not important for you as most have 10 year warranty and you'll be selling the house.

Single stage makes the most sense when you'll only be in the house for 1-2 years. Buyers don't know any better, they just don't want to see something that looks super old.

 

[Bud9051]

I'm in the states but Canada may have an energy audit service where you can get a lot of information about your home along with what is needed for sizing.

If downsizing to a condo is wanted to reduce energy costs your current home may be a better option, there you get to decide what work can be done. I've heard many stories here on the forum where condo owners no longer control their destiny.

The furnace size you select now can be reduced by making your home more efficient.

Bud

 

[Shplad]

Yes, in fact I'm going to order an audit through Enbridge's Home Energy Reno program. I'm just waiting to get an app't because of...what else...Covid. I'm wondering what it will cost to reinsulate my attic. I believe it's only vermiculite up there.

 

[user_12345a]

In order to get a furnace rebate you have to do at least 2 other upgrades I believe.

It's not worth it unless you want to do the upgrades anyway.

Considering your situation I would just get a simple furnace put in and be done with it.

Never underestimate the ignorance and stupidity of home buyers. They don't care if the house is well insulated, they want pot lights, crown molding, smooth ceilings and granite counter-tops. It doesn't matter how crappy the house is behind the walls and in the attic.

 

[Shplad]

Is there any way I can get a guesstimate of what it might cost to reinsulate my attic without tradesmen coming in? I can't reach anyone to come in because of Covid.

 

[user_12345a]

Contractors are working, they're considered essential.

you can search a forum where homeowners asking about similar things/prices in the gta post, rfd is one of them, there may be others.

Doubt it would be less than $1000.

It's more important to air seal an attic than insulate - effective r-value of insulation with air moving through it is zero. Also, the law of diminishing returns applies and going from R20 or so to R60 doesn't save that much.

How old is the house?

 

[Shplad]

Maybe so, but about 1 in every 10 contractors I call calls me back, or even has voicemail to allow me to leave a message. I do get tired of wasting my time.

 

[Bud9051]

Hard to get replies when asking for estimates when they are busy. Once they sense you are shopping then they probably will not call back.

Bud

 

[Shplad]

What am I supposed to do? Ask them to do the work without an estimate? Probably 80% of the tradespeople with whom I've dealt over the last few years either did lousy work, or tried to charge outlandish prices. Sometimes both.



And I didn't tell them I was "shopping". I jsut said I wanted an estimate.

 

[user_12345a]

What am I supposed to do? Ask them to do the work without an estimate? Probably 80% of the tradespeople with whom I've dealt over the last few years either did terrible work, or tried to charge outlandish prices. Sometimes both.



And I didn't tell them I was "shopping". I jsut said I wanted an estimate.

Welcome to the GTA. :sad:

Your best bet for initially finding a contractor may be word of mouth.

Or if you're comfortable working in an attic (i'm not), you can rent the machine and do blown in yourself.

 

[Shplad]

I was ready to do blow in years ago. However, I have a health condition with impaired immune system and blow-in plastics and propellant make me very ill. No matter how long I wait. For that reason, blow-in is out.

 

[Shplad]

For anyone in Canada, I was quoted $3,650 installed for the York TM9E. Is that a reasonable price?

 

[Missouri Bound]

And I didn't tell them I was "shopping". I jsut said I wanted an estimate.

Funny that you think wanting an estimate and shopping are two different things.:vs_laugh:

 

[Shplad]

And I suppose you don't even ask the price when you go to buy something?

 

[user_12345a]

Most pro insulation companies would do blown in in an attic, not batts. is that okay if you're not the one doing the application?

For anyone in Canada, I was quoted $3,650 installed for the York TM9E. Is that a reasonable price?

It's quite a bit for a single stage but I'm not up to date on pricing. may have to do with having to have an ecm motor.

What was in the quote? There should be details about intake piping, duct transitions, filter, etc.