[myproject7000]

Our house that we purchased a couple years ago was built in 1960 and I am finally getting around to updating the last of the remaining single pole "flip" type switches with the Decora style. However, I need assistance trying to figure out one particular switch that controls the light for the ceiling fan/light combo. The ceiling fan/light also has two separate pull chains to control either the light or the fan. Attached are 4 images of the switch in question, along with explanations for each.

Here are my questions/concerns:
1. I've never come across thick stranded wiring, with a thick rubber type covering, of the type used for both of these wall switches (one for the light, the adjacent one for the fan). All other wiring in the house is solid copper, either 14 or 12 AWG. Can anyone offer info on the stranded wire used here? It seems thicker than 14 ga, but the circuit is 15 amp.

2. Why is a neutral wire backstabbed into the light switch. There are no other neutral wires located inside either the box for the fan or the switch. Unless the white neutral is being run as a hot, but it is not marked anywhere to indicate so.

All I want to do is replace the original light switch shown in the photos with a Decora switch and need to know the best way to do so considering the way it's currently wired. Unless it won't be possible.

Just trying to get some professional opinions for guidance as I try to figure this one out. Tks.

 

[rjniles]

I will hazard a guess that the white wire is not a neutral, it is part of a switch leg bringing power to the switch, the black alone on the lower terminal is a switched hot back to the load. The black wire back stabbed is bringing the hot to another location. Do you have any knob and tube wiring?

 

[Nealtw]

My guess!! is the black and white are a switch leg and some one has added the stranded wire to have separate switches for each. If the fan and light don't both work with out that wire connected then the fan wiring would need to be corrected too.

 

[myproject7000]

No, all breakers, most of which have been upgraded in recent years. Just thinking off the top of my head, and to avoid backstabbing altogether, how would a Decora switch, with only its two screw terminals, accommodate the current configuration, if at all?

My other headscratcher is the stranded wire that is being used for both switches. Is this common for early 60's construction, as I've never seen it before, and its nowhere else in our house? On the new Decora fan switch I was able to twist the ends tight enough to be able to slide them under the brass tabs and then tightly screw them down. I presume this won't be an issue as long as they are absolutely secured under each screw.

 

[seharper]

Whenever you see white on a plain switch, that ain't neutral. That's an old school switch loop where the the 2 wires are always-hot and switched-hot. White is supposed to be used for always-hot (to make it more obvious that it is not neutral).

No, all breakers, most of which have been upgraded in recent years. Just thinking off the top of my head, and to avoid backstabbing altogether, how would a Decora switch, with only its two screw terminals, accommodate the current configuration, if at all?

You pigtail. Pigtailing is a skill that is pretty mandatory when doing this kind of work.

My other headscratcher is the stranded wire that is being used for both switches. Is this common for early 60's construction, as I've never seen it before, and its nowhere else in our house? On the new Decora fan switch I was able to twist the ends tight enough to be able to slide them under the brass tabs and then tightly screw them down. I presume this won't be an issue as long as they are absolutely secured under each screw.

It looks to me like a couple of "individual wires" are leaving this box. That ain't right. Somebody is dealing dirty here. It looks like they are stealing always-hot from this box.

This is revealing of very bad and dangerous work. You can't tap single wires like this. I might have expected to see it in Knob-and-Tube wiring, but this house is way too new for that.

That whole area needs to be reworked and the bad work all cleaned up. In the meantime, I'd turn off this circuit's breaker and put a clamp meter on its neutral. Stick loads in all the other circuits and see if any current moves on that neutral. If none does, you can stick an AFCI breaker on that circuit, which will protect you from arcing faults (the usual firestarters). You're not required to install AFCI, so you could also get away with an AFCI receptacle at the first recep location, wired to protect the downline.

 

[jbfan]

Have you replaced the other switch yet? I think someone took a single wire and fed the other switch from that switch and may have taken a single wire to the fan.

To make it work you have to add a pigtail to the two wires and connect it to the new switch.

 

[myproject7000]

The new switch works fine. I will attach a photo shortly of the fan switch and box just so everyone is clear on what the wiring looks like inside both boxes.