Help/Advice Needed, Leak From 2nd Floor To 1st Floor!

2282 Views 41 Replies 12 Participants Last post by GTRoger, May 25, 2020

Sean Price

Discussion Starter · Apr 22, 2020

4

Hello All,

2 story colonial in the Midwest, zip: 53186.

In need of roof that keeps getting delayed due to the "issues" we are all having so when it rained the other night and we got a leak into the kitchen I actually HOPED it was roof related. However today again we have the leak, worse now and a full day without so its not roof related.

Please see pictures with highlights.

Kitchen ceiling in that area was always rough looking so I expected some kind of leak when we obtained the house but that was over 10yrs ago and no leak until today. Immediately above the kitchen is bedroom but adjacent to that is the bathroom and I am 99.999% sure the bathtub/shower plumbing is in that area, since adjacent to the kitchen is the vanity bathroom and the toilet placement mirrors the one directly above it.

No recent work has been done in over a year, and no other changes, just happened out of nowhere. Any recommended plan of attack here?

Also if and when I do contact a plumber, how best to approach one or what should I expect here? Last time I was quoted $1500 for a faucet leak repair with a cement washer tub removal/replacement, not to mention, $800 for two toilet install so I have not had the best of luck here with plumbers.

any and all advice is greatly appreciated!

Sean P

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1 - 20 of 42 Posts

MTN REMODEL LLC

· #2 · Apr 22, 2020

Is it wet now... take a screw driver and punch a hole up into it to determine if you have pooled water in it...let it drain.

See if it drys out with no rain...water can soak into insulation and relwease slowly onto to of drywall. If it drys out it's likely the roof.

If it doesn't dry out in several days, I'd try not using each fixture one at a time for a day or two.....watching to see if you get leakage from a tub, or a sink, or a toilet etc.

When I've had roof leaks involved, and weather dry and accomadating, I litterly haul a hose up and statring at lower portion of suspected leak area, flood each successive area for a couple of hours, then up to next area, untill I get the leak.

I just use o concrete block to hold the hose`, I don't sit on the roof.

Remember, that water seems to flow in strange manners (always downhill) but it follows rafters and studs and can be pretty far when it pools from the actual leak.

Ghostmaker

· #3 · Apr 22, 2020

Do you have a tub access door. What is above the wet spot. Do you notice water when you leave the shower run.. If not flush the toilet 6 times and see if you get water.

MTN REMODEL LLC

· #4 · Apr 22, 2020

Also had a sorta a strange roof leak at my brother-in-laws.

Just during some storms he had a leak that came down from his two story home onto an outside kitchen wall.

He had had roofers out that could not find it....they used hoses on his siding, around second floor windows etc and could not locate any leak.

He lives in PA, and when visiting told us about it. The give away was that it only occured during some storms.

Went up in his attic trusses, through the s,mall hatch with a bright light, and by looking carefully, could find the markings of a small water stream on his interior plywood sheathing.

It was just an eastern wind driven storm that was causing it as his rake shingles lifted up by his ridge. (The roofers could not shoot their water that high.)

We had to run to Depot, get a caulk gun/adheasive caulk , roofing nails and a couple of 100ft rope...toss it over the gable roof, probably close to a 12-12, and climb it and carefully caulk/nail those rake shingles down. No problem at least for the last 15 years.

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Sean Price

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 23, 2020

MTN REMODEL LLC said:
Also had a sorta a strange roof leak at my brother-in-laws.

Just during some storms he had a leak that came down from his two story home onto an outside kitchen wall.

He had had roofers out that could not find it....they used hoses on his siding, around second floor windows etc and could not locate any leak.

He lives in PA, and when visiting told us about it. The give away was that it only occured during some storms.

Went up in his attic trusses, through the s,mall hatch with a bright light, and by looking carefully, could find the markings of a small water stream on his interior plywood sheathing.

It was just an eastern wind driven storm that was causing it as his rake shingles lifted up by his ridge. (The roofers could not shoot their water that high.)

We had to run to Depot, get a caulk gun/adheasive caulk , roofing nails and a couple of 100ft rope...toss it over the gable roof, probably close to a 12-12, and climb it and carefully caulk/nail those rake shingles down. No problem at least for the last 15 years.

these are the war stories that keep me coming back to this web site, so awesome!

Question tho: did he have to pay for those roofers even tho they didn't find it?

MTN REMODEL LLC

· #6 · Apr 23, 2020

Sean Price said:
these are the war stories that keep me coming back to this web site, so awesome!

Question tho: did he have to pay for those roofers even tho they didn't find it?

Sean...Ya know it was a long time ago....don't know if I ever asked or ever knew.

Sean Price

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 23, 2020

MTN REMODEL LLC said:
Is it wet now... take a screw driver and punch a hole up into it to determine if you have pooled water in it...let it drain.

See if it drys out with no rain...water can soak into insulation and relwease slowly onto to of drywall. If it drys out it's likely the roof.

If it doesn't dry out in several days, I'd try not using each fixture one at a time for a day or two.....watching to see if you get leakage from a tub, or a sink, or a toilet etc.

When I've had roof leaks involved, and weather dry and accomadating, I litterly haul a hose up and statring at lower portion of suspected leak area, flood each successive area for a couple of hours, then up to next area, untill I get the leak.

I just use o concrete block to hold the hose`, I don't sit on the roof.

Remember, that water seems to flow in strange manners (always downhill) but it follows rafters and studs and can be pretty far when it pools from the actual leak.

Ghostmaker said:
Do you have a tub access door. What is above the wet spot. Do you notice water when you leave the shower run.. If not flush the toilet 6 times and see if you get water.

Has not rained in 2 days now. So definitely related to tub/shower I would say but no real rhyme or reason to it, the mystery continues..

Monday - rained overnight but no leak in morning

Tuesday - tub and shower used, and leak happened in evening, I blamed roof.

Wednesday - shower was used and no immediate leak but 20mins later it leaked quite a bit

Thursday - ran tub and immediate slow leak, but then an hour later, shower was used and no leak?

- Checked area behind tub crawl space and no apparent leak.
- toilet and faucets are both on east side of room, used extensively and no leak
- tub/shower on west side of room and when used leak seems to occur

Hate to say it but this one might be over my skill set. Unless you fellers got any more advice or direction here?

Otherwise....

Any advice on calling on a plumber? I haven't had the best of luck with them. Usually I google and call the top 3 that are highly rated based on reviews. However their FREE estimate is for naught when they charge me a $150 no matter what "assessment" fee, and then hit me with $75-100 p/hr rate and the requisite 2hr min time charge..

Meanwhile I found this guy on Craigslist, seems legit..

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diyorpay

· #8 · Apr 23, 2020

Might be time for a really expert plumber to use a camera system.
May require a small hole from downstairs in your pics.

TheEplumber

· #9 · Apr 23, 2020

Are you saying you think the tub leaks? If so, I'd start with the drain seal. This is not a difficult fix-- usually.....
You don't need a plumber for that.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Sean Price

Discussion Starter · #10 · Apr 23, 2020

TheEplumber said:
Are you saying you think the tub leaks? If so, I'd start with the drain seal. This is not a difficult fix-- usually.....
You don't need a plumber for that.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Negative, not a plumber or a pro, but I'd have to say my best guess is a pipe leak from inside drywall somewhere.

I mean to say its coming from the tub/shower area of the bathroom as they are on the east side of room, and the toilet and sink faucets are on west side of room.

Leak seems to be primarily on west side of house near tub/shower bathroom.

MTN REMODEL LLC

· #11 · Apr 23, 2020

And if not a tub seal or shower seal....apparently it is a DWV pipe in the drainage system.......(not the supply which would be a continuous leak)..

Is that about correct...????

If so, it's pretty strange for a drainage system (within the home) to break....even a crack usually won't appreciably leak.

Has there been any modification to your home prior to this problem showing up... any new electrical wiring run, any hardwired security system installed...any thing that might have pierced a drainage pipe.

(You said tub usage caused the leak, and I did have an instance where some new owners used the jetted tub and kept hot water running into it to stay warm. The overflow pipe is not a water tight connection. it is sorta a sponge for a convenient fit....her kitchen ceiling leak was from excessive use of the overflow....

But you also note the shower caused a leak also.....so doubt it is just the tub overflow.)

TheEplumber

· #12 · Apr 23, 2020

Is your drain line to the tub galvanized pipe? or cast iron? They will rot away over time.

If it is at a shower, check and see if it has a rubber gasket (no-caulk) drain- it might be pulling away- I've seen more than 1 pot light filled with water because of these gems.....

You might think about renting a small SeeSnake and getting it's camera end into the ceiling while running water. See if you can locate the leek that way.

Sean Price

Discussion Starter · #13 · Apr 24, 2020

MTN REMODEL LLC said:
If so, it's pretty strange for a drainage system (within the home) to break....even a crack usually won't appreciably leak.

Has there been any modification to your home prior to this problem showing up... any new electrical wiring run, any hardwired security system installed...any thing that might have pierced a drainage pipe.

In January of 2019, we had a full bathroom remodel, old tub and shower walls torn out and replaced. No issues however until now and not sure if its related..

However in the first pic, where it looks a bit rough and directly above the fridge as well, to me always seemed like water damage. Thought that when I first bought the house but in 10yrs no leaks until this week..but now I'm sure that was water damage from over 10 years ago..

Perhaps that "pre-existing" condition somehow came back or got worse?

Yesterday:

10am - bath was used, for a toddler so only bare amount of water used in tub, I would say about 3" below over flow. Leak occurred immediately.

1pm - shower was used as normal, no leak at all...

5pm - shower was used again and leak occurred..

Today:

10am - shower was used as normal and no leak..

poked around everywhere I could and NOT seeing any signs of water damage, as you will see in my reply to Eplumber.

at a loss here...

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Sean Price

Discussion Starter · #14 · Apr 24, 2020

TheEplumber said:
Is your drain line to the tub galvanized pipe? or cast iron? They will rot away over time.

If it is at a shower, check and see if it has a rubber gasket (no-caulk) drain- it might be pulling away- I've seen more than 1 pot light filled with water because of these gems.....

You might think about renting a small SeeSnake and getting it's camera end into the ceiling while running water. See if you can locate the leek that way.

full bathroom remodel last year in January including tub/shower tear out and replacement.

Used shower at 10am this morning, but checked crawl space before and after, dry as a thistle. Drain from tub is PVC and no signs of an moisture on it or drain tub area, and not a drop of water anywhere on the ground under tub.

Not sure what you mean about rubber gasket at shower area? Looked in bath area and no sign of any rubber and can't see behind it since crawl space only opens up to tub drain area, but again on moisture anywhere on the walls..

Being that the area its leaking at now always looked water damage, what are y'alls thoughts on it being a DWV leak...

Thing is we placed cups where its dripping and water does not look soapy or anything like that. Its a brown/rusty but clear looking water..

Sean Price

Discussion Starter · #15 · Apr 26, 2020

2

Well Friday came and went and the 3pm plumber never showed, but at least his office called at 3:10pm to let me know..

Anyways, the plot thickens.. Friday and Saturday, bath/shower used as normal and no leaks. Thinking maybe it was roof/rain issue after all, particularly due to absence of soapy water.. whenever it did leak. *see pics*

However today, the leak is back, *see pics* and returned almost immediately during usage of shower. I think i'm noticing a pattern as leak never occurs when I use the shower. Then again, I am a 5min shower kind of guy so probably leaking but not enough for it to soak thru ceiling. However every time kiddo's shower it leaks and they are definitely not 5min shower types.

So going to completely tear out area behind bath/shower and take a closer/deeper look and see if I can get to the bottom of this. I am now confident its bath/shower related but puzzled where due to no soapy water..

Worse comes to worse plumber should be in tomorrow morning and perhaps I've made his job easier, at least in terms of access.

WISH ME LUCK!

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jmon

· #16 · Apr 26, 2020

Been watching this post. I was hoping that solved the issue.

I agree with you, seems to happen when the kids take the showers. As you mentioned, there must be a crack, loose caulk, etc., where the water is getting through and when the kids take a shower they seem to find the sweet spot.

Hope you get it figured out and fixed soon sean. All that water is going to cause other issues as well, like mold.

3onthetree

· #17 · Apr 27, 2020

Sean Price said:
I think i'm noticing a pattern as leak never occurs when I use the shower. Then again, I am a 5min shower kind of guy so probably leaking but not enough for it to soak thru ceiling. However every time kiddo's shower it leaks and they are definitely not 5min shower types.

Not sure how you have a crawl space on the 2nd floor, but tear out the soffit over the fridge since you'll probably want to do that anyway, you can get a better look there and maybe see routing of plumbing. It'll also let the water dry out, you can push the fridge back in and no one will notice til you get it figured out.

I think I would stand there and watch the kids shower. Where they stand (jumping on the drain with an acrylic tub?), dumping cups of water over the overflow drain or making waves in a bath (can happen not tight enough seal as plumber in 2019 couldn't really test it), not closing the curtain.

My kid decided to forget how to shower properly, didn't close the curtain all the way to the back, and sure enough a leak in the kitchen ceiling. Apparently Niagara Falls over the tub onto the tile and found its way down, I believe in the back of the toilet where I don't put sealant.

Sean Price

Discussion Starter · #18 · Apr 27, 2020

4

FOUND THE LEAK....

My apologies, I said crawl space but I meant the area behind tub/shower.

Seem to really only happen when the hot water is run, since I had wife test and no leak, but when I ran it, did so with both warm/hot water and sure enough leaks.. filled a 12oz cup in less than 5mins so that SCARY!

Anyways plumber is on his way now so we'll see what he says.

I'll keep yall posted!

oNe

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dj3

· #19 · Apr 27, 2020

Can you post pictures of the tub ?

Mystriss

· #20 · Apr 27, 2020

Glad you found yours.

Ours took about 5 years, a kitchen ceiling, and a closet wall to find; Random few drops once in a while from around the tub upstairs. We couldn't figure it out because we tore up everything around the plumbing and none of the pipes were leaking. Eventually figured out that a silicone seal had gone bad under a thing that only got water under it at a certain angle of refracted shower spray... GRRRRR

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