Hello - solar electric expert here

hi mboxwell,

some time ago i designed a line interactive photovoltaic inverter. i synchronized it to the grid and - for a brief moment - delivered power to the utility & see the meter go in reverse. did this as a school project. then i found out later that it requires an independent power producers license.. and so ended said project. but it was fun while it lasted. i always wanted to get back into it.

here is an idea i had about a solar project...
i live in a cold climate, northern hemisphere. i wanted to make a solar hot water heater similar to this project HERE. then i want to run some tubes in concrete (pex?) when i pour the cement for my driveway. then i want the solar hot water heater to heat the water which warms the concrete drive way which melts the snow. and i don't have to shovel anymore.

what do you think? think i can generate enough warm water to do this in a reasonable residential DIY project sort of way?

Knucklez

Sounds an interesting project. Similar things have been done here in the UK, although I don't know much about them. The problem is you don't get a lot of solar energy during the winter when you most need it.

You might find a DIY ground source heat pump would be more effective though, if you've got the space to build one. This would bring up heat from underground to help heat up the driveway.

The problem you will have is the large surface area of the driveway, which means that it would be difficult to keep warm.

Hello Mike,

Welcome to the site.

Knucklez said:

i live in a cold climate, northern hemisphere.
generate enough warm water to do this in a reasonable residential DIY project sort of way?

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Will 3.3 kilowatt-hours per square meter per day, average, for Ontario, do it?

Actually, I think I know how to do it - how to keep the snow cleared off your driveway in winter using a solar panel.

Here's what to do:

Build a small solar water heating panel and prop it up outside the front of your house in view of the road.

After a while, you'll start getting curious and interested glances from different people. Sooner or later, somebody is going to ask you about it.

Explain to them that it is a solar water heater and that it can provide free hot water using the power of the sun. If they seem interested, tell them that they can have it for free, if in return they agree to sweep the snow off your drive during the winter.

Bingo - you've built a solar hot water panel and your drive stays snow free all winter.

mboxwell said:

I wish the UK was as good

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One day while driving my rental car around Portsmouth the radio announced that it would be extremely warm today-75F!

Snowfall in the UK: a dog became an annoying beer drunk and
it snows every 10 years in Cowplain.
So the dog woke up to a snow-covered landscape one morning after a drinking binge and
gave up drinking.

Welcome Mike, I'm a newbee myself. I'm a little confused. I have a small sailboat and I resently installed a small solar panel. I think it produces 4 watts at peak. I have the panel mounted on the top of the bimini and I know this is only a trickle charge from my batteries, but when it rains and the water puddles on the panel, my watt meter flucuates. According to the meter, almost a whole watt. Is the water causing some type of magnafication effect or have I just had to much to drink?

Thanx and welcome again
Bottomdweller

Bottomdweller said:

Welcome Mike, I'm a newbee myself. I'm a little confused. I have a small sailboat and I resently installed a small solar panel. I think it produces 4 watts at peak. I have the panel mounted on the top of the bimini and I know this is only a trickle charge from my batteries, but when it rains and the water puddles on the panel, my watt meter flucuates. According to the meter, almost a whole watt. Is the water causing some type of magnafication effect or have I just had to much to drink?

Thanx and welcome again
Bottomdweller

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Are you saying that the power increases when you have water on the panel, or reduces? If it is increasing, I can only think that there is some sort of light concentrator effect going on.

mboxwell said:

Are you saying that the power increases when you have water on the panel, or reduces? If it is increasing, I can only think that there is some sort of light concentrator effect going on.

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Sure. Water droplets with a convex surface can only cause magnification of the sun's rays.

Yoyizit said:

Sure. Water droplets with a convex surface can only cause magnification of the sun's rays.

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Magnification? Or concentration? I can understand a small magnification effect, but a convex surface is going to concentrate the light to a smaller point on the surface of the panel, and the effect of that should be minimal in terms of electricity generation. In hot weather this could actually damage the panel over a long period of time.

I've been doing some experiments here with an old amorphous panel and I am not getting any discernable improvement by adding droplets or puddles of water onto the array. In fact, with a puddle of water I'm getting about a 10% decrease in power generation, which is what I would expect.

mboxwell said:

Magnification? Or concentration? I can understand a small magnification effect, but a convex surface is going to concentrate the light to a smaller point on the surface of the panel, and the effect of that should be minimal in terms of electricity generation. In hot weather this could actually damage the panel over a long period of time.

I've been doing some experiments here with an old amorphous panel and I am not getting any discernable improvement by adding droplets or puddles of water onto the array. In fact, with a puddle of water I'm getting about a 10% decrease in power generation, which is what I would expect.

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I stand corrected; the panels that use convex lenses use lenses big enough to cover the whole panel with light.

Doesn't all the light get through the water?

Not all the light will get through water although the vast majority will.

Some of the light will refract off the water (which is why droplets glisten and sparkle in sunlight), and some of the light will be absorbed by the water, generating heat and eventually evaporating the water off the panel.

Solar electric

mboxwell said:

Are you saying that the power increases when you have water on the panel, or reduces? If it is increasing, I can only think that there is some sort of light concentrator effect going on.

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Yes sir, it increases and the effect you have discriped sounds like what is going on. Is this common or have i discovered something? LOL