[wraiththe]

Hi,
We will be updating our Heat pump soon, it is 16 yrs old and not working properly. There is a lot of info here, so let's just assume it needs to go.

I Have done research and maybe am not asking the right questions, it is still quite difficult to decide. I could really use some good pointers to help me make the right or "best" decisions. I have done a lot of reading.

I have had several estimates, each guy tells me something different... some are quick to pick a type, others are not forthcoming. I Have seen from 1700 to 10K estimates. (yes seriously) Someone is bullpooping here.

I would like to learn how to figure it all out myself, but realize it can actually be quite complicated. Hoping you will read on, I will include some details and images.

Climate and Condo.
I live in Charlotte NC, it gets hot throughout the year... 100s in the summer, a few days below zero in the winter and has been warm in the winter from 32 to 70+ on any given day. Some snow 1x-3x and not much... we get ice.
The humidity really sucks here. My current unit had trouble getting it out of the air until it started slowing down... at which point it got a little better, However the dripping condensation would have eaten a hole through the floor of the return had I not caught and put a pan under it over the last year. (drips straight down.)

some of metal on the 4-5 year old evaporator coil has completely rusted away. Much rust in there.

Our condo is 1100 sq ft.
Second floor
12' vaulted ceilings in most rooms (attic above)
7 Registers (not including small one above the handler.)
5 runs I think.
Insulation in ceiling with vapor barrier on sheetrock.
Same for sides and the neighbor below in plenum.

Current heat pump: 2004 (16 year old carrier) R22.
I cannot find the Kilowatt rating on the condenser or the handler.
3 guys told me I have a 2-ton 12-14 seer single stage Heatpump
which is what I have been told in the past.
1 guy told me I have a 1.5 Ton single stage heatpump.

attached are some pics, the names show where they are from. I will tac one reply with an internal view.

Thought I was looking at a (410A)
Single stage 2 ton 16 seer or a
Two Stage 2 ton 16 seer

Now one guy says a 1.5 ton with variable speed fan in handler???

I know a few things: (aside from I don't know enough)
It must be sized like Goldy locks... not to big, not too small or it will not work right! and must be 410A.
Supposedly Variable 2 stage will take more humidity out of the air by running slower and more efficiently, but if it breaks is much more expensive to fix.
Single stage will pull the humidity out if it is working right...
Seriously Humidity kills us.
We will probably get some form of UV scrubber.
We have other major expenses and this is going to make life hard for a while.

Gee, I wrote a book! If you are still here, enjoy the pics.

Concerns:
I never want to worry about it dripping into the return and eating a hole in my floor and the neighbors ceiling.
I would like it to not rust out.
Seriously HATE humidity. We get mold out of the air here. Cannot have it.

The long tall skinny label is from the outside condenser.

 

[wraiththe]

I was told the Condenser must match the evaporator and handler. (One guy implied that was not true.)
Yes we have the extra wires for 2 stage variable.

 

[user_12345a]

Existing unit is a 1.5 ton, 10 seer.

Do not get a 2 ton or your humidity problem get get worse.

The air handler's coil needs to match the outdoor unit. Don't let them use a coil rated for a 10 seer/1.5 ton on a 13+ especially when it's a heatpump.

Best to get a new matching coil and if nothing will fit the air handler, change the air handler.

The $1700 bid is probably for outdoor unit only.

There are no 2-stage 1.5 ton units so you would have to upsize to get 2-stage, which defeats the purpose.

You can get a single stage with variable speed air handler though and slow the fan down on demand in cooling mode to improve dehumidification.

 

[wraiththe]

Existing unit is a 1.5 ton, 10 seer.

Do not get a 2 ton or your humidity problem get get worse.

The air handler's coil needs to match the outdoor unit. Don't let them use a coil rated for a 10 seer/1.5 ton on a 13+ especially when it's a heatpump.

Best to get a new matching coil and if nothing will fit the air handler, change the air handler.

The $1700 bid is probably for outdoor unit only.

There are no 2-stage 1.5 ton units so you would have to upsize to get 2-stage, which defeats the purpose.

You can get a single stage with variable speed air handler though and slow the fan down on demand in cooling mode to improve dehumidification.

14 Seer is the minimum allowed now.
We will have to get matching coils and handler.

So slowing the fan and the air on the coils of a single stage would not cause dripping issues? or Icing?

actually the 1700 was for a dent and scratch, but I am sure that did not include labor...

Thanks,

 

[user_12345a]

If the installation is done right water won't drip out, it will get collected by the coil's drain pan and flow out the drain line.

There won't be freezing slowing the blower down unless the airflow in dehumidify mode is too low, it needs to be tuned properly.

You should be able to go down to 350 cfm per ton (normal is 400) without risking freezing.

 

[wraiththe]

If the installation is done right water won't drip out, it will get collected by the coil's drain pan and flow out the drain line.

That is a big if. I am not the only one that had the condensation dripping straight down instead of clinging to the coils and falling in the drain pan. One of my acquaintances here (His mother) had mold and a rotting ceiling because her neighbor above had the same drip. She could not get the HOA to help and the neighbor would not listen. Took over a year to get something done about it.

anyway... now it scares me. I may have a pan and an emergency drain put in the bottom of the return.

 

[user_12345a]

Water dripping is normally caused by a coil freezing up or excessive dirt.

Coil freezing is caused by low airflow, running the unit in cooling mode when it's too cold outside or a refrigeration problem.

It's usually not a problem.

There are water leakage sensors available that will shut off the cooling if anything drips - https://www.ktool.net/diversitech-w...MIwIa4x_bv6QIVCrbICh3HjwwwEAYYASABEgKby_D_BwE

 

[House Designer]

Consider running a dehumidifier regularly. This portable one:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B06X9MFTZZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

works great in my 1200 sq. ft. Florida condo. I run it year-round overnight while we sleep. I have it plugged in to a heavy-duty outlet timer.

Condos with shared walls can have uncertain heat loss (heat gain) through the walls, depending on what temperature your neighbors keep their condos. Therefore, there are certain weather conditions where your a/c will not run enough to remove humidity.

Even a stand-alone condo or house a/c system will be running in an off-design condition most of the time, unless you have a variable-speed compressor. Off-design means that your a/c is not running often enough for effective humidity control, because the weather outside is not hot enough.

The costly answer to humidity control is to force your a/c to run often enough by setting it 3-5 degrees below your comfort zone. Then you're uncomfortably cold, but the humidity is better controlled.

The cheap answer to humidity control is to remove it with a dehumidifier, then you can maintain your desired temperature and still have comfortable levels of humidity.

 

[user_12345a]

The costly answer to humidity control is to force your a/c to run often enough by setting it 3-5 degrees below your comfort zone. Then you're uncomfortably cold, but the humidity is better controlled.

No, there are t-stats that can overcool by 2-3F and send a signal to slow the blower down and improve dehumidification.

There are also things that can be done to reduced humidity - air sealing, using exhaust fans when showering/cooking.

Most people don't know to use exhaust fans to purge moisture and think they're just to remove bad smells.

 

[wraiththe]

Thanks, I do have a dehumidifier, had to use it when putting in a shower. Do not want to deal with it, noisy, creates heat, a pain to drain.

Due to our condo, an exhaust fan is probably not an option... not sure what you mean by that. User_12345a?

I do like the sound of a variable speed fan... just that I have not seen anything about using one with a single stage condenser and the cost of repairs. Been told they do not make 1.5 ton variables small enough for my space...

 

[user_12345a]

Often a 1.5 ton uses the same coil as a 2 ton, and you can get a 2 ton air handler and have the blower speed set up for a 1.5 ton.

For a heatpump gotta make sure the air handler is an approved match.

It's true that variable speed blower air handlers cost more to fix than the more basic ones. Out of warranty, the motor is very expensive to replace.

But what's also true is that it's the control module on the motor that fails, and it can be replaced by itself at a much lower cost than than the entire motor/module combo.

The greatest problem with variable speed air handlers could be that too few people know how to work on them and just condemn the motor, if not the entire air handler.

---------------------------

Do you have vented exhaust fans installed in bathrooms? Is your range hood vented outside?

They're important to have.

A dehumidifier can help but should be a last resort.

 

[wraiththe]

Often a 1.5 ton uses the same coil as a 2 ton, and you can get a 2 ton air handler and have the blower speed set up for a 1.5 ton.


Do you have vented exhaust fans installed in bathrooms? Is your range hood vented outside?

They're important to have.

A dehumidifier can help but should be a last resort.

That is what he have now. 1.5 and 2 ton.

Yes, exhaust fans in bathrooms.

 

[user_12345a]

Your humidity problem may have been caused by leaving the fan speed set to maximum. It has to be adjusted to deliver 600 cfm on your duct system.

Could have also been caused by being improperly charged.

 

[beenthere]

I don't see the model number of the outdoor unit to know if its a 1.5 or 2 ton unit.

Model number of the compressor inside the condenser would tell us what size the heat pump is.

As for how many KWs of aux heat the air handler has. You can open the top panel and count the number of elements, or look at the rating on the label of the heater.