[Ed C]

Bought a condo for my daughter at college and it has a 3.5 Ton York Heat pump. Had it checked and the tech said it is nearing its 10 year life, yet working.


My question is if I should have to replace, since there is no gas, should I go back with a heat pump or just a high eff. full electric heater and condensor?

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[hvactech126]

obvious answer when it comes time for replacement is Heat pump for the most efficient electric heat.

 

[Artco]

Stick with the heat pump.

 

[Ed C]

Thanks did not know that a heat pump was that much more efficient than electric.

 

[yuri]

It definitely is. Google : air to air heat pump and heat pump and read up about them. Has a COP co-efficient of performance. Can get more than 1$ worth of heat for every 1$ spent on electricity to run it at certain temps.

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/publications/infosource/pub/home/heating-heat-pump/asheatpumps.cfm

 

[Ed C]

Thanks, I assume one caveat with a heat pump is ensuring it is correctly charged.

Is the a different method for checking a heat pump in the dead of winter? or do you just check it in heat mode just like cooling mode during the summmer?

 

[yuri]

I don't see many of them here as it goes below zero a LOT. I did work on them years ago in the Summer. Marty or Beenthere or one of the other techs can answer you better. The best way to test them is in the cooling season when it is over 70 deg F outside and inside the house. In the winter the outdoor coil starts freezing and needs defrosting etc or you get wrong pressures etc. Summer is better as that is not a problem and it needs a load to work against to see if it is properly charged and healthy. Modern units have all welded joints (except the TX valve) and you can get one to not leak for 20 yrs. Her unit should be good for at least 15 yrs before the compressor valves wear and it starts losing capacity. York is a good brand and they don't use el cheapo compressors like some others.

 

[Ed C]

Thanks Yuri for your information. We actually have a meeting again today with the servicer. He serviced it prior to our closing: cleaned coil and condensor, replaced contactor and capacitor and added 2lbs of gas. (68 degree day)

But now after being there one day to do work, it appears it may be over charged since it never seems cool in the unit inspite of being set at 73 degrees. We think that it is not removing humidity where as, it did not feel this way prior to servicing when we walked thru with real estate agent.

Thanks

 

[yuri]

2 lbs of freon is probably 20% of the charge so that is quite a bit to lose and have to add. Heat pumps are critically charged meaning that it should be all removed and weighed in with a scale to get it right. Some of the highly experienced and skilled techs out there can do it in the summer just with gauges but it should be weighed in to get it right (thats what I was taught, times change though). Be VERY careful how you negotiate with the servicer to get it fixed now or it will turn into a peeing match and everyone gets defensive and nothing gets resolved or done properly. I would talk to the service manager and also ask for the pressures and temps in writing. Charging it on a cool day like that is NOT easy and everyone can make mistakes. See if they will agree to come back on a warmer day and mention to them you read that the charge should be weighed in. That is a LOT more time consuming and expensive. I am sure Beenthere who does York and has done them for many years can do it w/o weighing it in but who knows how skilled your guy is. Hang in there, Marty and Beenthere and others will be here today.

Read this to see how bad things can get when you don't negotiate properly or get defensive and accusatory.
http://www.diychatroom.com/f17/should-i-pay-misdiagnosed-problem-101100/

 

[Ed C]

There is 10 pounds of gas in that unit?

Thanks, relationship is new but agreeable at this point. Small college town so he has been very agreeable to come back out and check it today at 4PM. Should be in the 80's today in College Station Texas.

I agree, not looking for a fight, just need the unit working without replacing. He was BBB listed so that is why I chose him. I fully understand the "everybody makes mistakes" though and am not wanting to point fingers! Everything should go well, if push turns to shove I will call another company or try and use the home warranty that we got with the unit.

Thanks again.

 

[Artco]

The company doing the repairs in the past may know the compressor is losing the ability to cool when he said it is 10 years old is nearing the time to replace it.
When you meet with him ask him to do an effiency test of the system, check both cool and heat operation, check filters, motors, operating controls etc...
check all supply and return registers make sure they are all open and not blosked.

 

[yuri]

Be careful with those home warranty deals, I hear a lot of horror stories about them and from what I understand they use the lowest priced companies to do the service and you get what you pay for. They may want to sell you a new unit or replace it to get some $$ from the warranty co and you may be stuck with some expensive upgrades to the air handler etc etc when you really don't need a new unit yet.

 

[Ed C]

By the way he also said they found no leaks in the system after cleaning.

 

[yuri]

Read my post above yours. It had to leak somewhere. May have a slow leak in the schraeder valve fittings outside. The only way to know for sure it to remove all the freon and do an expensive pressure test with nitrogen. If it has not been serviced for several years it may lose 1 lb but to lose 2 sounds like a lot and I imagine the previous owner would not have tolerated poor heating or cooling. You can look at the outdoor sticker rating plate and it should tell you how many pounds and ounces it holds. 2 ton unit can hold 4- 6 lbs so I am extrapolating.

 

[Ed C]

Be careful with those home warranty deals, I hear a lot of horror stories about them and from what I understand they use the lowest priced companies to do the service and you get what you pay for. They may want to sell you a new unit or replace it to get some $$ from the warranty co and you may be stuck with some expensive upgrades to the air handler etc etc when you really don't need a new unit yet.

Thanks, yes I have heard that about warranty companies.


Read the link you provided and it wont go that way. If he asseses something else other than an overcharge today, that should have been paid for by the sellers, I will ask him to leave. I will have lost all faith in his work. I based the purchase on his assessment of the HVAC. I will say thanks, but no thanks and call someone else.

Thanks

 

[Ed C]

Read my post above yours. It had to leak somewhere. May have a slow leak in the schraeder valve fittings outside. The only way to know for sure it to remove all the freon and do an expensive pressure test with nitrogen. If it has not been serviced for several years it may lose 1 lb but to lose 2 sounds like a lot and I imagine the previous owner would not have tolerated poor heating or cooling. You can look at the outdoor sticker rating plate and it should tell you how many pounds and ounces it holds. 2 ton unit can hold up to 6 lbs so I am extrapolating.

The condo unit has been empty for about a year and the college students probably were comfortable by just lowering the stat.

Also, there is also the possibility that it did not really need 2 lbs of freon, not making an accusation but it is a possibility.

Here is more information from him:


York Heat Pump M# E1RC042S06D (2003 model)

Compressor pulling 12.8 out of 23.5


Evaporator York Air Handler M# F2FP048H06BS (2003 model)

Blower pulling 2.3 a out of 3.4


"Evaporator is clogged. Preassures read 65/150 psig on startup at 65 degrees. Due to clogged evaporator, pressures drop steadily into freezing range. Will not know how much freon is needed until evap coil is cleaned."

 

[yuri]

If it is overcharged then the larger line outside will get white and iced up and the indoor coil freezes up (usually) but it takes several hrs for that to happen and it will cool normally until that happens. W/O being there we cannot really tell you what the problem is. For all we know the compressor may not be running or the condensor fan going too slow or a whole host of other problems. My point is I would not assume it is overcharged until he tells you what he thinks is wrong or you get another skilled tech out there. It should be pulling about 3/4 of its rated amps on a hot day with a load.

 

[Ed C]

If it is overcharged then the larger line outside will get white and iced up and the indoor coil freezes up (usually) but it takes several hrs for that to happen and it will cool normally until that happens. W/O being there we cannot really tell you what the problem is. For all we know the compressor may not be running or the condensor fan going too slow or a whole host of other problems. My point is I would not assume it is overcharged until he tells you what he thinks is wrong or you get another skilled tech out there. It should be pulling about 3/4 of its rated amps on a hot day with a load.

Thanks, yes I agree with all you say. Blower is set on low speed and is for a 4 ton and the actual heat pump is 3.5 ton.




As I asked earlier, you and he both state that the 2lbs is 20 percent of the total charge, does this unit hold 10lbs? seems like a lot! Disregard, re-read your earlier post!

 

[yuri]

The problem you may have is that college students don't do maintenance (partying is more important):yes:, tend to keep the tstat at lower temps/drive the sheet out of it and may have shortened its life. I do rentals near a University and they could not care less as long as it blows some air. Air filter, whats that? We were all young and the same but it does not bode well for a happy healthy heat pump.:no::laughing:

 

[Ed C]

Thanks will advice later when I get back. News just said high 80's today so we should get a good load on lit.

Thanks