[tribe fan]

I have a split level home in Ohio built in 1977. I have fairly basic renovation skills, but am an avid DIYer. I am motivated and willing to learn as I go, but feel I don’t possess the requisite skills necessary to confidently gut an entire house. My idea, to keep part of the house livable and ensure the project doesn’t spiral out of control, is to gut the house room by room. I’d complete renovating a room before moving to the next. I feel this would be a good way to keep costs under control as well (although I’m sure gutting the entire house and renovating the whole thing at once is less expensive in the long run).

Here is my question. What kind of things should I look for with all the walls and ceiling exposed? I’m planning on repairing/renovating/replacing everything necessary (electrical, plumbing, insulation, etc.). Should I bring a contractor in to eyeball things as I go to get feedback?

 

[Nealtw]

I have a split level home in Ohio built in 1977. I have fairly basic renovation skills, but am an avid DIYer. I am motivated and willing to learn as I go, but feel I don’t possess the requisite skills necessary to confidently gut an entire house. My idea, to keep part of the house livable and ensure the project doesn’t spiral out of control, is to gut the house room by room. I’d complete renovating a room before moving to the next. I feel this would be a good way to keep costs under control as well (although I’m sure gutting the entire house and renovating the whole thing at once is less expensive in the long run).

Here is my question. What kind of things should I look for with all the walls and ceiling exposed? I’m planning on repairing/renovating/reverything necessary (electrical, plumbing, insulation, etc.). Should I bring a contractor in to eyeball things as I go to get feedback?

There is nothing wrong with the plan but full gut for 1977 house sounds a little extreme.

 

[tribe fan]

There is nothing wrong with the plan but full gut for 1977 house sounds a little extreme.

I don't think it's been reinsulated since it was built. Wouldn't this be the best way to check for that and replace? I'd also want to redo all the windows as well.

 

[Nealtw]

I don't think it's been reinsulated since it was built. Wouldn't this be the best way to check for that and replace? I'd also want to redo all the windows as well.

Just changing insulation old to new won't make enough of a change, making the walls thicker for more insulation, it would have 2x6 framing today. And yes you may find repairable damage when you get below the windows.

Do you have aluminum wiring too? That can be tricky to change one room at a time

 

[3onthetree]

ensure the project doesn’t spiral out of control

In cost or how much is gutted at once? 1977 should have pink batts, adequate NM wiring, working plumbing. Is the purpose of the gut to rearrange things, bring in new finishes, or just satisfy the feeling of having "new" materials?

Electrical, plumbing and HVAC cross between rooms so seldom can you just gut one room, you need a couple/section at a time, and/or basement/attic access.

 

[sixeightten]

Unless that house was terribly constructed, a whole house rehab like you propose seems unnecessary. Insulate the attic better by adding more blown in which is cheap and a very easy DIY project. You could also consider doing all of the windows/doors, one at a time, which will help with the wall insulation.

 

[tribe fan]

Interesting feedback. So I shouldn't even bother with replacing wiring or drywall unless I notice an issue? Should I even bother with replacing insulation?

 

[sixeightten]

Interesting feedback. So I shouldn't even bother with replacing wiring or drywall unless I notice an issue? Should I even bother with replacing insulation?

Drywall can be patched and repaired to look like new at a fraction of the cost. Wiring in 1977 here in Ohio, is mostly gonna be ok. Insulation only needs replaced generally if it is in conjunction with other repairs, or easily accessible(attic).

 

[tribe fan]

Drywall can be patched and repaired to look like new at a fraction of the cost. Wiring in 1977 here in Ohio, is mostly gonna be ok. Insulation only needs replaced generally if it is in conjunction with other repairs, or easily accessible(attic).

So maybe just replace power outlets? How about ductwork? That's probably in good shape and just needs a good cleaning I'd assume.

 

[Nealtw]

Interesting feedback. So I shouldn't even bother with replacing wiring or drywall unless I notice an issue? Should I even bother with replacing insulation?

I am not sure if the electricians recommend changing out the wire or not. It can be done but it takes dome planning to it one room at a time.

I don't know what the deal is with old drywall. Here we recycle it but only if it is marked 1990 or newer, older than that is has to be bagged up for special disposal. So you have to be careful with this stuff.
Here is write up closer to me but just so you know what you are dealing with.

https://www.rdn.bc.ca/asbestos-disposal
As it is safe left alone and bad when you handle it I would push for leaving what you can. On the other side of that we all handled it for years with no ill effect.

 

[carpdad]

First find out value of your house. Insulation/air leak sealing is important but they are underappreciated if you decide to sell. Best thing to do about the insulation would be to cut about 12x12" hole in the wall and confirm the kind and the r value of the insulation (should have the r value stamped on the paper or foil). Then you could decide if demo and insulation are needed. You can brag all you want but no buyer will be impressed enough to pay the amount you want. Personal experience.:smile:


What kind of windows? I have circa 70-80's wood double hung, single pane. All stained. The stain is 70% gone and the wood is sun damaged beyond help. If the frame could be sanded and painted, I would've kept the windows, esp since the storm windows are excellent. My house is fairly small and a candidate for demolition except the previous owner did not sell to a developer who would have replaced this with a mcmansion. I over paid.:smile: But the regional highschool is rated excellent.


Insulation can be added outside once siding is removed. XPS foam board will also air seal the house skin.


Plumbing, if working, replace only the smaller steel drain parts, keep the coppers and the main drain. There should be at least one tub for the babies but for masterbath, showers are popular. No more jet tubs. Bathroom positions in the house is kind of locked in. It may be central, example. Not much need to send it elsewhere.



Electric can be simple enough to wire and it is possible to wire each room by sending dedicated lines from main panel to attic and to each room. More waste but you save on pro costs. Check your wires at the switches or outlets for copper or aluminum. Having aluminum wires in the house may decrease the house value.


All these can be done. It takes organization. It takes, though, more than basic skills. 3 way wiring, example, can get out of control.

 

[Old Thomas]

Aluminum wire got a new alloy in 1972 and fell by the wayside in about 1975. That should not be an issue. I would rewire, it doesn’t cost much if you do it yourself. Think about where to wire for things like wall mounted TVs, microwave ovens, computers and printers, WiFi, and all the stuff that has become ubiquitous since 1977. And don’t forget convenient outdoor receptacles and security lighting/cameras.
Many contractors don’t want to be bothered with DIY stuff. If you want an independent eye on it, call some home inspectors. Some are very knowledgeable about trades and can provide oversight. Some are not, so ask questions. Maybe you can work something out with one who can stop by when it is convenient for both of you at an agreed upon fee. They are always wanting to fill their days with new clients and they don’t need to produce reports for your job.
I would do it all so you finish with a completely new interior. No patching walls at changed windows, no unknowns, no old trim to match, etc.
I did the first floor of my house a room at a time but did the trim all at once when all rooms were done. The second floor I did all at once. It is more efficient and easier but we needed to live on the first floor as we worked. We are here for you but I have only been doing it for 50 years, so I don’t know it all.

 

[CaptTom]

I guess I'd want to know more about exactly what you're trying to accomplish. Does the sheetrock need to come out? Ceilings textured or popcorn? Bad or insufficient wiring or plumbing? Otherwise, you can have a blast re-decorating without gutting anything.

I did exactly what you propose. I bought a house that needed total gutting and renovation, and some additions along the way. 40 years into it, I've still got a list of things I'd like to finish.

I'd recommend gutting the whole thing at once and getting it over with. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to do that, and had to raise a family in the house while all this was going on. So I won't say it can't be done. Just that I'd avoid it if I had a choice.

 

[Chris616]

My wife and I have renovated two houses using the “do one room at a time” approach (with some exceptions like flooring). If you plan to DIY and live in the house it’s a sensible approach, as long as your spouse is in agreement.

Contractors are looking for work, so unless you find one who you can pay to come in and give advice I don’t really see how that would work. With the Internet and access to expertise like on this board your questions will get answered. Don’t start on the kitchen, the most complicated room in the house.

In our reno we have completely gutted all bathrooms and kitchens, but only done what is required in bedrooms and other areas, like if we were moving walls or making electrical changes. As others have written, with a 1977 built house you’ll have modern electrical wiring and wall insulation, so there isn’t anything to gain by taking drywall down and putting it back up again if you aren’t making changes and don’t have a reason to think there might be something behind the drywall that needs attention. You can replace all the electrical devices and cover plates to make everything look new. As Neal mentioned, getting rid of older drywall that might contain asbestos might be problematic where you live, like it is here.

A 1977 build will be just before polybutylene piping was introduced (which was problematic), so you probably won’t have that headache to deal with.

Gutting a bathroom really requires that you have a second one that can stay in service. That’s probably not an issue in most houses. The kitchen is more difficult. In our first house we built a new kitchen in a new room, so we had the old one to use. In this house we moved all the old cabinets and appliances to a room elsewhere in the house so that we could gut the old kitchen down to the studs to rework the electrical and plumbing for an expanded kitchen and new cabinet layout. That was not as much work as I expected and it made things a lot easier for the chef.

Chris

 

[Old Thomas]

We bought our house mentioned above on 1980 and gutted/remodeled it over the next few years. Then in the 1990s we updated it. I retired in 2011 and since added a sun porch and updated every room again from gutting a bathroom to new countertops, new ceramic tile, sanded oak floors, etc. Last year I rebuilt our stairs with stained oak. My wife said I am done, everything that can be updated is updated. Those were the best words I heard since she said, “I do”. Then I started another hot rod project.

 

[Mystriss]

We've been doing that to our 1977-78 house up here in Alaska for 15 years, hope you're ready for a long haul of open walls/ceilings and sound transmission everywhere

For the "resale value" (we never plan on selling, but that's apparently a thing for everyone else in the world) we did a major remodel of the kitchen; moved all the appliance and plumbing, all new cabs, etc. (Have an album up with products if your interested.)

For the "living comfort/saving money" the best thing we did was replacing all the old windows and sliding doors with low-e. Replacing the windows and sliding doors was the very first thing we did and it made a HUGE difference for keeping the temps inside stable and comfortable, and I think our NG bill cut in half from it.

-- Frankly, if one was only doing one thing, new windows is 100% my pick. Our windows used to frost up in the winter (it gets -20*F or lower pretty regularly up here) For Xmas I got an inside/outside thermometer that I put on the kitchen window sill and I've been watching it all winter. I've never seen the temp go below 60*F inside (we keep the house at 65*F) I'm super impressed with the low-e's, and they're not even top quality, just Home Depot vinyls (we skimped a bit there cause I wasn't thinking about the remodel thing with the same frame of mind at the time.)

Second best for "living comfort/saving money" was that during the kitchen remodel we had pulled the exterior siding and before putting the siding back on we put on exterior house wrap (Tyvek.) Between the wrap and windows there was a MASSIVE difference in how hot it would get downstairs here (we get about 9-10 hours of full sun on a dark chocolate brown exterior all summer long, it could get really miserable.) Now it stays far cooler during the summer, and even though we pulled out nearly half the hot water baseboards downstairs, it still stays warm too.

----

Wall-o-text of things I'm super happy we've done/are doing that you might want to consider:

New boiler and hot water heater, I can't even say how pleased I am with the "near instant" hot water and huge hot water tank we put in. I take hour long hot as it'll come out showers and the setup we have handles it with ease. We got a Munchkin boiler (husband says they went under? IDK why their boiler is absolutely amazing. 16 years installed and never had a single problem with her, AND she's 100% zero maintenance.) I also love the Ultrastor brand indirect fired water heater we got; no need to worry about replacing the rods or anything, it's nearly maintenance free and just perfect IMO.

Lights in the "living room" - the front room had a switched outlet but no ceiling lights. We'd put our pool table in there and it's been basically unusable all winter long (we only get like 5 hours of daylight in the winter.) We're currently putting in overhead ceiling lights and pool table lights, it's gonna be lovely.

Running internet & cable to every room - it's gonna be great since the cable company doesn't put them in-wall for you. If you've got the floor or ceiling open it's nice to run those. I'm running HDMI's & 3.5mm IR cables (they're headphone cables, but you put IR on them to relay remote control signals to your receiver/TV/other component) from the upstairs office/home theater to the downstairs game room and kitchen so I'll be able to basically do whole house audio and video. I'm installing 13.2.4 ATMOS speakers in the office/home theater. I also put an extra coax and Ethernet cable into the basement for later expansion to the dining room or back porch. I'm super excited to be almost done with all that.

MOAR OUTLETS! - IDK about your place, but mine never had enough, nor were they well located, so while we've got various floors/walls/ceilings open I'm adding them in or relocating them so they're more functional. Also running an outlet + 8K HDMI + TosLink cable up to all our wall mounted TV's to get rid of hanging cables and/or cable tracks (which never look right to me, even if you paint em to match the walls.)

Related to above - we're replacing all the old outlets in the house. We've been doing the decora style Leviton tamper resistant ones [for grandkids which are coming soon,] but I kinda want to put in some of the new square Legrand Adorne style ones cause they're so cool (they make some nice looking switches too, JS) - Also might want to swap out some outlets for ones that have the built in 5v USB ports on them for phone charging.

Also related to the above - Garage door openers weren't really a thing until the 80s. I don't know about you, but the orange extension cord across the ceiling thing just doesn't work for me The garage door opener oft uses 22/2 (same as the door bell) I've been running 18/4 just for GP. (Might consider installing some laser parking assists while you're at it. We really love ours. There's a number of good ones that work in conjunction to the safety sensors and don't require an outlet, or bulb to outlet adapter as new openers tend to have LED's these days.)

Also, also related to above - we're putting in some outlets and switches that have built in night lights in areas that are "high traffic" so we don't have to turn on the overhead light. So far we've got night light switches at the top and bottom of the stairs and in the dining room near the garage door. Also put in nightlight outlets in all the bathrooms as well as the hallways (which originally had exactly ZERO outlets.)

Changing out switch wires - We've got 12/2 through-out the house, but I'm running 12/3 to all the switches we get access to. We probably won't need it ourselves, but the newer "smart" switches use the third wire as I hear it (also might be code now?) so we're putting them in anyway.

Changing out bathroom fans - the new ones are far quieter, typically move more air, the lighting is oft brighter/cheaper LED, AND the new ones are so much more attractive. If we're able, we're also swapping out the 12/2 to the switches to 12/4 for those ones that have fan, light, and night light on separate switches.

Changing out ceiling lights - All the lights in this place were pretty poor at lighting so we've been switching them all out as well. We've been putting LED panels in the hallways and other high use rooms- we're very happy with that change.

New moldings - We had/have that typical 3" contractor base molding through-out the house and it's so boring. I'm switching it all out for taller 4 to 6" base molding cause it just looks so much better. Also crown is really nice depending on your interior styling - I'm going to be putting in crown with LED strip in/on it as accent lighting as well. (Hard wiring that up can get a bit more complicated if you get the typical 12v stuff as it needs a transformer and stuff.)

Install hard-wired smoke & CO2 detectors - I like to have a hard wired one of each flavor on each floor, then I supplement with the battery ones to meet code. (They make ones that do both now, though I've not researched a hard-wired combo one.) Also think about running any security stuff cables/wires while you've got walls/floors/ceilings open - there's motion detectors, break sensors, and cameras; I've been running RG9 Coax cable for video, and 22/4 to feed any of those things I think I might want to have down the line.

Eave lighting - I'm pretty sure that eave lighting is the best thing in exterior lighting ever. The setup I'm going to be doing will be individually addressable RGB strips so we won't even have to put up xmas lights anymore, just code the Arduino to do basically whatever I want, from color to chase and fade and everything in-between. It's gonna be glorious. Hard-wiring for my setup requires a 22/4 through the exterior wall to where I'm putting the controller and power supply inside (the upstairs office in my case.)

Change out exterior lights - We replaced all our old flood lights with motion sensing LEDs and I can't even find words for how much better it is. -- Related; eventually we'll be running flag/yard/porch/driveway lights too.

Change out the doorbell - I'm just going to replace my entire doorbell setup, wiring and all, cause it not only sounds awful but it only works half the time. If you're thinking about a RING door bell you can run the standard 20/2 doorbell wire for that (and make sure you get the RING II that can be hardwired.)


I think that's quite enough from me so I'll shut up now. I love this stuff :vs_laugh:

 

[Mystriss]

Okay, I lied, one more thing I just love and totally forgot to add in hehehe

Keypad door locks, JS. No more lost keys, no keys in the pocket! I love, love, love mine. Only downside is they're battery powered and it gets so cold we have to fork out 16 AA's a year for them - still would never go back though.

 

[babylov333]

Everything's OK