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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, on to the grounding of my 200a upgrade. I want to run my plan by all you and see if I need to make changes. In the disconnect panel, the neutrals and ground are bonded together. I will have two 5/8 8 foot ground rods with a #4 bare copper wire going from the disconnect to each rod. Because the rods will be in the back yard where my girls play they will be completely berried, and I will make sure to get ground rod clamps that are rated accordingly. I will place the ground rods at least 6 feet apart, and at least 18 inches from the house.

I will run a #4 ground wire from the disconnect to where the water main enters the house. By the time I go around, under, and through, it will be about 75 foot of wire. I will make the initial connect right above the basement floor, where the water main enters, and then a small jumper piece of wire to bridge over the meter.

Now for bonding the NG line, I am not quite sure exactly if it is okay to run a #4 wire from the water main to the gas line, or if I need to run a new ground from the disconnect. I do have a NG furnace, but it is not grounded.

Then I will have either a 1/0 cu or a 2/0 al ground from the disconnect to the sub. I am pretty sure any conduit I use will be pvc, so I will not need to worry about grounding that.

Considering the lack of grounding in my house now, it is amazing nothing bad has happened.

Thanks for your input,
Michael
 

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Grounding sounds good but I usually got with ground wire just before the meter then go continuously to the other end of the meter. You need to be within five feed of the water main coming inside.

I have not dealt with Natural gas bonding so I will see if someone else comes in if not I will check my code book.

What size sub panel are you going to have?
 

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250.94 Bonding for Other Systems
An intersystem bonding termination for connecting intersys-
tem bonding conductors required for other systems shall be
provided external to enclosures at the service equipment or
metering equipment enclosure and at the disconnecting
means for any additional buildings or structures. The inter-
system bonding termination shall comply with the follow-
ing:
(1) Be accessible for connection and inspection.
(2) Consist of a set of terminals with the capacity for con-
nection of not less than three intersystem bonding con-
ductors.
(3) Not interfere with opening the enclosure for a service,
building or structure disconnecting means, or metering
equipment.
 

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Okay, on to the grounding of my 200a upgrade. I want to run my plan by all you and see if I need to make changes. In the disconnect panel, the neutrals and ground are bonded together. I will have two 5/8 8 foot ground rods with a #4 bare copper wire going from the disconnect to each rod. Because the rods will be in the back yard where my girls play they will be completely berried, and I will make sure to get ground rod clamps that are rated accordingly. I will place the ground rods at least 6 feet apart, and at least 18 inches from the house.

I will run a #4 ground wire from the disconnect to where the water main enters the house. By the time I go around, under, and through, it will be about 75 foot of wire. I will make the initial connect right above the basement floor, where the water main enters, and then a small jumper piece of wire to bridge over the meter.

Now for bonding the NG line, I am not quite sure exactly if it is okay to run a #4 wire from the water main to the gas line, or if I need to run a new ground from the disconnect. I do have a NG furnace, but it is not grounded.

Then I will have either a 1/0 cu or a 2/0 al ground from the disconnect to the sub. I am pretty sure any conduit I use will be pvc, so I will not need to worry about grounding that.

Considering the lack of grounding in my house now, it is amazing nothing bad has happened.

Thanks for your input,
Michael
Only #6 wire is required for ground rods
To bond the water line and meter. Install#4 to where the water line comes in the house abnd then jump over to tother side of meter.
Install jumper between water line at hot water heater.
The gas line is already bonded/grounded by the ground wire in the furnace circuit.
The wire used for the bonding and ground rods does not have be bare.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks, Yes the connection to the water will be made within 5 feet, it will actually be made within a few inches of where the water main enters the house.

I understand I can use #6 for the ground rods, but as I need to buy so much #4 for getting to the water line, I figured a few extra feet of the same would make life a little simpler.

Thanks for the code reference on inter-system bonding. I thought about it, but did not think on it to hard. Checked, and my sat dish does not even seem to be grounded. I do not find a ground for the phone system either. This gets more and more fun. That is what I get for trying to do stuff right on a 100 year old house, with a 40 year old addition that wasn't done right.

Okay, so I need to connect a ground to the cold water and hot water lines at the water heater as well? it is an electric water heater.

The furnace wiring does not have a ground. It is wired with that old 2 conductor stuff that is wrapped in like cloth or something. But I could run a 12-2 to it with a ground, might be easier then bonding the NG line another way.

The sub will be a 200 amp panel fed by feed through lugs on a 200 amp panel at the meter.

Thanks for your responses.
Michael
 

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I did something similar but since it was a 100 ft run I ended up using 4/0 aluminium wire but you could use 3/0 copper if you wanted to use copper two 3/0 hots you can step the neutral down to 1/0 and use a #6 ground. I would use at least 2" conduit.
 

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deverson said:
Don't forget the intersystem grounding bridge that's NEC required.
Only on a new service. Not required on a service upgrade.
 

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rrolleston said:
Grounding sounds good but I usually got with ground wire just before the meter then go continuously to the other end of the meter. You need to be within five feed of the water main coming inside.

I have not dealt with Natural gas bonding so I will see if someone else comes in if not I will check my code book.

What size sub panel are you going to have?
No additional bonding conductor is required if the equipment supplied has a branch circuit supplying it. If that is the case then the EGC is sufficient for bonding the NG line.
 

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Also be aware of CSST bonding requirements.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I did something similar but since it was a 100 ft run I ended up using 4/0 aluminium wire but you could use 3/0 copper if you wanted to use copper two 3/0 hots you can step the neutral down to 1/0 and use a #6 ground. I would use at least 2" conduit.
Okay, I was under the empression I had to use 4/0-4/0-4/0-2/0 al or 2/0-2/0-2/0-1/0 cu to feed the sub. Which I have not tracked down yet, and I am calling places 160 miles away. If I can use 4/0-4/0-2/0 al URD and#6 cu ground to feed the panel, that would save some money and fustration. But the ground is not in the cable, does it need to be in conduit then? URD is about the only way to get the al around here, if I went with cu, it would need to be THHN, and I already figured that at about $15 a foot with conduit and all.

Michael
 

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Okay, I was under the empression I had to use 4/0-4/0-4/0-2/0 al or 2/0-2/0-2/0-1/0 cu to feed the sub. Which I have not tracked down yet, and I am calling places 160 miles away. If I can use 4/0-4/0-2/0 al URD and#6 cu ground to feed the panel, that would save some money and fustration. But the ground is not in the cable, does it need to be in conduit then? URD is about the only way to get the al around here, if I went with cu, it would need to be THHN, and I already figured that at about $15 a foot with conduit and all.

Michael
You can actually use 4/0-4/0-2/0 with #4 al for ground I used #2 ground because #4 seemed a little too flimsy and I had a bunch of #2 left from another job. You don't need a full sized neutral.

Just buy 4/0 URD and add whatever size ground you want to add.
 

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I would problaby use the #4 cu then, because I am already getting it for the rest of the grounding. Does the 4/0 al URD and the ground need to be in conduit?

Thanks,
Michael
Yes 2-1/2" conduit.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks much, I will check with my inspector to make sure she is okay with 2/0 al neutral then for my job.

Michael
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Okay, is it possible to have the ground to big? I am asking because I did find a place that has the 4/0-4/0-4/0-2/0 al SE-R cable for $4.14 per foot. the 4/0-4/0-2/0 al URD, which just a few moments ago I thought I would use is $3.19 per foot. the #4 ground is $1.05 per foot, plust another $1.00 or so per foot for the conduit. So using the SE-R will cost less over all. is there any reason I should not use it, now that I found it, and it seems it will cost me less? The other thing, it seems the URD can not be used inside either, so I guess that is out on that fact as well.

Thanks to all,
Michael
 

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mbaldwin said:
Okay, is it possible to have the ground to big? I am asking because I did find a place that has the 4/0-4/0-4/0-2/0 al SE-R cable for $4.14 per foot. the 4/0-4/0-2/0 al URD, which just a few moments ago I thought I would use is $3.19 per foot. the #4 ground is $1.05 per foot, plust another $1.00 or so per foot for the conduit. So using the SE-R will cost less over all. is there any reason I should not use it, now that I found it, and it seems it will cost me less? The other thing, it seems the URD can not be used inside either, so I guess that is out on that fact as well.

Thanks to all,
Michael
The URD cannot enter the building unless it is dual rated RHH/ RHW.
 

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As long as the SER does not go underground then you can use it. But I do find that stuff a pain to work with.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
No, it will not go under ground. It will follow the garage walla bout 20 foot, then go in to the crawl space via hole in the rim joist, and travel perpidicular to the floor joists for about 28 foot, enter the basement, then turn and go back about 15 foot where it will connect with the panel. Of course there are some other twists and turns a long the way, it is not a straight as it sounds. I did go pick up the wire tonight. I got lucky, there was a section sitting that was discounted by about $1.00 per foot. Must have been the last bit of a spool, and it was only 5 foot longer than I needed.

It does look like it will be a pain to work with. Especially because i am considering putting the bit that is in the garage through conduit to protect it a little more, and I think it will look better.

Thanks again for all the tips and suggestions, I do appreciate it.
Michael
 
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