[Retiredchief]

I have a tub with jets in master bath, and there is a blank GFCI on the wall next to toilet. The wife hates this GFCI for aesthetic reasons. Was thinking about just removing the GFCI from there and installing GFCI breaker in basement. I've read about this and see that neutral needs to connect to breaker. There are several neutrals that feed the same conduit as the tub hot wire in panel. Questions; is neutral always run in same conduit with the hot wire? If so, what is the best way to identify the tub neutral when there is more than one in conduit?

 

[brric]

Fill the tub, turn on the jets, read the neutrals with an ammeter.

Make sure the neutral you identify is not part of a MWBC.

 

[Jim Port]

You are still going to need to leave the splice accessible. A blank cover looks almost the same as the blank gfi.

 

[Retiredchief]

You are still going to need to leave the splice accessible. A blank cover looks almost the same as the blank gfi.

And that just goes to show how silly this really is. She has said she doesn't want the grandkids playing with it while sitting on toilet. But back to the questions. Will the neutral be in the same conduit as the hot? I have to figure out how to use the amp feature of my test meter haven't had a need for that before

 

[Retiredchief]

Fill the tub, turn on the jets, read the neutrals with an ammeter.

Make sure the neutral you identify is not part of a MWBC.

I've read about MWBC's. With several hot wires and several neutral wires in one conduit what is the way to identify whether tub shares neutral with another hot?

 

[gregzoll]

And that just goes to show how silly this really is. She has said she doesn't want the grandkids playing with it while sitting on toilet. But back to the questions. Will the neutral be in the same conduit as the hot? I have to figure out how to use the amp feature of my test meter haven't had a need for that before

What is on the other side of the wall where the toilet is located? Majority of the time, the GFCI and motor access is through a false Cold Air Return on the wall.

 

[brric]

Use a clamp on ammeter.
If there are an equal number of hots and neutrals in the conduit MWBC's are unlikely. Trace the hots back to their breakers and look for two pole breakers or handle-tied breakers.
Trace all the hots in the conduit back to their breakers. Turn all of them off except the GFCI. Fill the tub, turn on the pump, remove neutrals from the buss one at a time until the pump stops.

There is no such thing as a false return air. It is either a return air or it not.

 

[Retiredchief]

Use a clamp on ammeter.
If there are an equal number of hots and neutrals in the conduit MWBC's are unlikely. Trace the hots back to their breakers and look for two pole breakers or handle-tied breakers.
Trace all the hots in the conduit back to their breakers. Turn all of them off except the GFCI. Fill the tub, turn on the pump, remove neutrals from the buss one at a time until the pump stops.

There is no such thing as a false return air. It is either a return air or it not.

There are 5 hots and 4 neutrals, but no two pole breakers for that conduit. Only two pole breaker is for air conditioning and it goes through different conduit. So I guess something is sharing a neutral?

 

[Retiredchief]

What is on the other side of the wall where the toilet is located? Majority of the time, the GFCI and motor access is through a false Cold Air Return on the wall.

I'm not sure I follow. Tub and toilet are on opposing bathroom walls. Behind the tub wall is a closet with an access panel for tub, but have never opened it. The GFCI is on an outside wall next to the toilet. The tub and GFI are the only things on that circuit as far as I can tell. There's a number of other places that the GFCI could have been placed, but someone decided to place next to the toilet.

 

[brric]

There are 5 hots and 4 neutrals, but no two pole breakers for that conduit. Only two pole breaker is for air conditioning and it goes through different conduit. So I guess something is sharing a neutral?

Very unlikely.
The GFCI itself would not be on a MWBC. My concern would be that disconnecting a neutral on a MWBC could be problematic.

 

[gregzoll]

I'm not sure I follow. Tub and toilet are on opposing bathroom walls. Behind the tub wall is a closet with an access panel for tub, but have never opened it. The GFCI is on an outside wall next to the toilet. The tub and GFI are the only things on that circuit as far as I can tell. There's a number of other places that the GFCI could have been placed, but someone decided to place next to the toilet.

Since there is already an access panel in the closet, move the GFCI blank there. A "False Air Return" is basically a cover that allows you access to the equipment for the tub. They are very common in a lot of bath setups that use Jacuzzi tubs.

Simple fix of maybe a half hour tops, moving the GFCI down to that access panel. The only problem that you could run into, is not having enough wire to move it down towards that access panel. Then you just have to flip it around and place a air return cover for access as I stated before. Then just patch the hole in the Bathroom, paintl

 

[dmxtothemax]

If you suspect a shared neutral ?
And you know what those five loads are ?
Then just lift each neutral one by one
and find out what doesnt work !

 

[rjniles]

If you suspect a shared neutral ?
And you know what those five loads are ?
Then just lift each neutral one by one
and find out what doesnt work !

You don't want to do that. If it is a MWBC, you will put 240 across the 2 circuits.

 

[dmxtothemax]

Does he know precissly what
The five loads are !
The breakers may be marked ?

 

[Retiredchief]

Since there is already an access panel in the closet, move the GFCI blank there. A "False Air Return" is basically a cover that allows you access to the equipment for the tub. They are very common in a lot of bath setups that use Jacuzzi tubs.

Simple fix of maybe a half hour tops, moving the GFCI down to that access panel. The only problem that you could run into, is not having enough wire to move it down towards that access panel. Then you just have to flip it around and place a air return cover for access as I stated before. Then just patch the hole in the Bathroom, paintl

I just assumed the tub is hard wired behind that panel. Is that not correct? I can pull the access to take a look, but is the idea to see if there's a junction box to install the GFCI there?

 

[Retiredchief]

Very unlikely.
The GFCI itself would not be on a MWBC. My concern would be that disconnecting a neutral on a MWBC could be problematic.

So I can understand, a GFCI cannot be on a MWBC? Why is that? I can then eliminate the tub circuit as sharing a neutral?

 

[Retiredchief]

Does he know precissly what
The five loads are !
The breakers may be marked ?

I do have the breakers labelled, but do not know which circuit might share a neutral. It sounds like I can eliminate any circuit with a GFCI as sharing a neutral?

 

[rjniles]

A GFCI receptacle (or dead front GFCI) can be on a MWBC. Sharing the neutral on load side will trip the GFCI. The GFCI does not know what is happening back toward the panel.

 

[gregzoll]

I just assumed the tub is hard wired behind that panel. Is that not correct? I can pull the access to take a look, but is the idea to see if there's a junction box to install the GFCI there?

Pretty much every Jacuzzi or spa tub out there, uses a regular plug. Only a commercial style one, would use a hard wired connection.

Pull the panel and grab a pad of paper and pencil, along with your smartphone to take pictures for you to go by.

 

[Jim Port]

The gfi should be accessible , not under the skirt.