[Earnie]

Have a lighting circuit that is tripping the GFCI breaker. Was not GFCI before. Adding it for the pool light.


Switches are for a pool light that is currently disconnected. Wires capped.


Other two switches are for a ceiling light and the ceiling fan.


Installed a non GFCI breaker and no issues. Re-connect the GFCI and it tripps.


Any obvious direction I should look?

 

[ront02769]

Disconnect the pool light from the switches totally....since that is likely the issue. Ron

 

[Earnie]

Disconnect the pool light from the switches totally....since that is likely the issue. Ron

As mentioned above, pool lights are not connected. Hot, neutral and ground wires from the pool light switch are capped with no other wires attached.

 

[brric]

Is the GFCI properly installed with the circuit neutral terminated on the breaker?

 

[seharper]

Yes, the GFCI pigtail needs to be on the neutral bar, and the circuit's neutral (which *was* on the neutral bar) needs to come to the GFCI breaker.

If the neutral can't reach, you'll have to extend it with a pigtail and wire nut. Some "last guys" are dumb, and runt off all the wires to barely long enough to reach what they're going to right now. They think that makes the panel neater. This is why doing that is bad.

Now, if you've been doing it right all along, then your existing circuit already has a ground fault, and has had one this whole time, and has been threatening your guests this whole time. I know that can be a shock, since adding the fault detector is the only thing that has changed, but it sure beats the other kind of shock.

In that case you'll have to see where this circuit goes presently, and start unhooking both hot and neutral. If you are unhooking to test, it is not enough to only unhook hot. You must also unhook neutral. Very important! So for instance if you have something on a switch, and the switch is off, that doesn't paint the total picture.

 

[Earnie]

Is the GFCI properly installed with the circuit neutral terminated on the breaker?

Yes. Removed neutral from bus and placed in the bottom slot on the breaker. Black on top. Pig tail now on the bus.

 

[Earnie]

Yes, the GFCI pigtail needs to be on the neutral bar, and the circuit's neutral (which *was* on the neutral bar) needs to come to the GFCI breaker.


Installed a above.

If the neutral can't reach, you'll have to extend it with a pigtail and wire nut. Some "last guys" are dumb, and runt off all the wires to barely long enough to reach what they're going to right now. They think that makes the panel neater. This is why doing that is bad.

Neutral was short so I did add white wire with wire nut.


Now, if you've been doing it right all along, then your existing circuit already has a ground fault, and has had one this whole time, and has been threatening your guests this whole time. I know that can be a shock, since adding the fault detector is the only thing that has changed, but it sure beats the other kind of shock.


Moved the GFCI to another circuit and it worked correctly there.

In that case you'll have to see where this circuit goes presently, and start unhooking both hot and neutral. If you are unhooking to test, it is not enough to only unhook hot. You must also unhook neutral. Very important! So for instance if you have something on a switch, and the switch is off, that doesn't paint the total picture.

What you recommend was a thought but wanted to be sure. Several neutrals are tied together.


I'm thinking the issue may be on the ceiling fan. There are two fan switches. One for light and the other for the fan motor. The light switch controls power to both the light and motor. Fan and light can be controlled but a handheld remote. Not sure how the fan motor switch is terminated in the ceiling box. Will need to look at that.


There is also a 3 way switch for a set of ceiling cans.

 

[Wiredindallas]

As to the 3 way switches, the neutral .to the lights may be "stolen" from another circuit. Does the cable between switches have the neutral included (3 wire + ground)?

 

[Earnie]

As to the 3 way switches, the neutral .to the lights may be "stolen" from another circuit. Does the cable between switches have the neutral included (3 wire + ground)?

Will look at that and report back.


How does the GFCI detect the ground fault? Is the ground fault hot to ground? Wouldn't that trip a regular breaker? Or neutral to ground? Other? Would a meter detect that, showing voltage?

 

[Wiredindallas]

A GFCI measures between neutral and hot. If power goes from hot to ground or hot to another neutral it trips.

 

[Wiredindallas]

The difference about hot to ground tripping a regular breaker vs a GFCI is the speed at which it trips.

 

[Oldmaster]

Do you need a GFCI for the fan and ceiling light? If you have a paddle fan it's could be the issue. I've experienced them tripping GFCI's

 

[Earnie]

Do you need a GFCI for the fan and ceiling light? If you have a paddle fan it's could be the issue. I've experienced them tripping GFCI's

They are on the same circuit as the pool light.

 

[Oldmaster]

Guess I'm confused. Previously you said the pool lights were disconnected.

 

[Earnie]

After several hours of disconnecting many wires and connecting them directly to the GFCI feed, the problem was a decora outlet. ? Nothing tripped the GFCI except the outlet. Replaced it and no issues.


Initially I thought the outlet might have been connected to two different circuits with the tab cut on the side of the outlet, but the neutrals were crossed. Not even sure if that is possible.


Many thanks for the help in isolating the problem.

 

[Earnie]

Guess I'm confused. Previously you said the pool lights were disconnected.

Just the wires while I was trying to isolate what was causing the problem.

 

[Oldmaster]

Congratulations on getting it working.

 

[seharper]

Yup, a crossed/stolen/"tie all the neutrals together like they're grounds" neutral will do that for sure, everytime.

GFCI sure keeps you honest

 

[Earnie]

Gave the brain a workout but nothing wrong with that.