Garage Under House - Header Thoughts?

2685 Views 15 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Msradell, Jan 2, 2016

Srimps

Discussion Starter · Dec 30, 2015

3

Hi all,

My wife and I are in the process of purchasing our first home together, and one of my first priorities is to make the garage and garage door functional again. The kitchen and dining room are right above the garage. The previous owner put a temporary jack underneath the kitchen area within the garage to help with a slightly bouncy floor. The garage door doesn't have an opener and is rotting at the bottom so it needs to be replaced. My mission is to do the following:

1) Replace garage door and install a low clearance opener.
2) Fix slightly bouncy floors via sistering the joists.

My question to you is, with the original construction pictures provided below, is the header system adequate for this type of garage / door? I tried searching the Google which gave me plenty of support for headers within typical garages, but it doesn't seem like I have that kind of required room to do so.

And my last question - Any reason to believe that the little bit of bounciness is caused by the large span on the gable end, and not the joists themselves?

Thanks for any insight that you guys can provide.

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Ron6519

· #2 · Dec 30, 2015

What is the size of the header and what is it's makeup? Double 2x?, Triple 2 x ?. Double with a flitch plate?
What weight is on top?
Photo?

Srimps

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 30, 2015

I don't have any info on the header size/makeup. I'll have to see if there is a way to get some more info on that. Home was built in early 80's.

Can't comment on flitch plate either.

Don't have weight for you either.

Looks like I don't have much more info haha.

I do have a photo of what's above it though.

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GBrackins

· #4 · Dec 30, 2015

Typically the header must be properly sized based upon the following:

1. grade and species of wood used for header
2. span of header
3. load supported

of course the header could be made from other materials than wood, such as steel.

It sounds from your description of the "bouncy" floor that the floor joists run front to rear (parallel with the garage door opening). They may be over spanned thus the excessive deflection or bounce.

You may want to consider having a professional engineer review the framing. They would be able to advise you if any modifications are needed before the house is all buttoned up. As you continue to add load (furniture, etc.) you may find the bounce increases.

Small amount to pay to get things correct.

Good luck!

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Ron6519

· #5 · Dec 30, 2015

What is the span and joist size, species of the wood under the bouncy section? . From the photo of the open framing, it looks like it could be engineered joists If the door span has no symptoms of sagging, I wouldn't worry about that aspect of the construction.

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Bud9051

· #6 · Dec 30, 2015

I hope you haven't signed on the dotted line as yet, there are potential issues here that may cost a lot of money.

That temporary jack is there to do more than reduce the bounce, I think the floor was sagging. You will also want to know what is under that support, a proper footing or just the concrete slab.

Sistering the joists isn't going to help that carrying beam across the center of the garage, the one that is being supported by the temporary post.

I suspect the garage header isn't bouncing as it is tied in with the sheathing. The bounce is the floor joists and that center beam.

Check the local permit department to see if building plans were submitted at the start.

If these are the problems you can see, you need to be very concerned about everything you can't see.

Bud

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ront02769

· #7 · Dec 31, 2015

Just did an 18' garage door opening for a garage, support was two 1 1/2" bye 14" lvls supported on each end by double two bye six jacks. Second floor is bearing the weight of half of the roof and is rock solid. But I got that specked out by a REAL lumberyard. Go to one of those and pose your questions....and if they can't help, they can refer you to someone who will. Ron

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Mingledtrash

· #8 · Dec 31, 2015

You need a structural engineer for this one! from what i can tell, whatever is there is only the height of the rim band. Likely only 12 in. Also LvL was filed for patent in 1986 so prob not lvl. So that pretty much leaves two probabilities, that I can see, either you have a glulam or you have a 2x12 header. Pray for a glulam. :0

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Srimps

Discussion Starter · #9 · Dec 31, 2015

Thanks for the input everyone!

I might have confused a couple with that second picture combined with me talking about a temporary jack. The 2nd picture shows where the garage turns into the basement. After that column, the floor joists actually run in the opposite direction compared to the garage joists.

I have a picture below showing where the temporary jack is now. It's basically just sitting against the ceiling drywall, about half the span of the garage - hence why it's virtually unusable for parking cars right now. There is no bounce in the floor using this configuration, which is why I was thinking of just sistering the joists. I'll try and get the span of the joists, and to see what was used for the header above the garage.

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ZTMAN

· #10 · Dec 31, 2015

If that one temporary jack took out the bounce, I would assume its under and undersized or deflecting beam. Cut open the dry wall and see whats up there.

Mingledtrash

· #11 · Jan 1, 2016 (Edited)

2

ZTMAN said:
If that one temporary jack took out the bounce, I would assume its under and undersized or deflecting beam. Cut open the dry wall and see whats up there.

I dont think many noticed, but in the pictures of the house being built, there is a view, of what looks like a possible permanent post in the garage(i cant tell from the pic whether its temporary or not), where the temporary jack is now placed. There may be a joint in the beam in the center of garage, and there is supposed to be a post holding it up. Its possible, if said post existed, that someone took said post out by committing vehicular posticide.

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ZTMAN

· #12 · Jan 1, 2016

I think you nailed it.Previous owner took out a support post for the beam

Msradell

· #13 · Jan 1, 2016

Mingledtrash said:
I dont think many noticed, but in the pictures of the house being built, there is a view, of what looks like a possible permanent post in the garage(i cant tell from the pic whether its temporary or not), where the temporary jack is now placed. There may be a joint in the beam in the center of garage, and there is supposed to be a post holding it up. Its possible, if said post existed, that someone took said post out by committing vehicular posticide.

It certainly looks like they are in about the same position in many garages certainly have a center post like that. I wonder if maybe you could install a heavy beam (steel or engineered) across the garage with appropriate end support and accomplish the same thing? It would simply be worth having engineer look at.

SeniorSitizen

· #14 · Jan 1, 2016

It seems today's speed of construction continues to defy the proven method that quells the bounce and has been around and worked well for decades or possibly centuries.

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Srimps

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 1, 2016

Mingledtrash said:
I dont think many noticed, but in the pictures of the house being built, there is a view, of what looks like a possible permanent post in the garage(i cant tell from the pic whether its temporary or not), where the temporary jack is now placed. There may be a joint in the beam in the center of garage, and there is supposed to be a post holding it up. Its possible, if said post existed, that someone took said post out by committing vehicular posticide.

Good eye. At first I was thinking the beam that is shown in the construction photo was at the split from the garage to the basement. But the more I look at it, it's hard to tell if it is or not. The good thing is we know the previous owners who have lived their since it was built (in laws haha). I can ask about the beam and columns location, relative to where the temporary jack is.

So if the temp jack that is there now is at the beam shown in the construction picture, what kind of options would I have to NOT have a column in the middle of the garage right where car doors open up?

Msradell

· #16 · Jan 2, 2016

As I suggested earlier in the thread it might be possible to put a beam across the garage from wall-to-wall with a post under each end to eliminate the center post. You would need a structural engineer to evaluate what size beam, posts and foundations would be required.

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