[kennykenny]

What opinions are out there about fuel injector cleaners? Worth it? Just use good gas? If yes, what kind, how often to use it? Mechanics suggest it a lot, that I have heard, offering the service when other service is done. Thoughts?

 

[Old Thomas]

I use the cheapest gas in town and never use any fuel injection cleaner. In the mid 1990s the federal government started mandating a minimum level of detergent in all gasoline sold in the US. Top tier gas supposedly has more, but I don't buy it unless it is the most convenient. Most manufacturers do not include it in their maintenance regimen and some tell dealers not to sell FI cleaners, because some can damage sensors. If your car runs poorly because of dirty injectors, it needs to be disassembled and serviced properly. If it runs well, just drive it without adding any snake oil.

 

[Windows on Wash]

BG44K is the best I have used. Do it once every oil change and during the last tank of gas before the oil change.

 

[Old Thomas]

It is mostly hype.

https://www.ncconsumer.org/news-art...t a part of,now that last the life of the car.

 

[Windows on Wash]

I disagree wholeheartedly. We have measured dyno performance before and after. The issue isn't the cleanliness of the injectors as much as it is cleaning the carbon off of the piston crowns and the back of the valves. This is easily verifiable and trackable on boroscope.

 

[DoomsDave]

This is useful!

 

[Old Thomas]

To clean carbon from valves and other engine surfaces, cleaners raise the temperature in the combustion process so that it burns off foreign substances. That can be detrimental to catalytic converters and especially to turbos that live downstream. Ford had a real problem with ecoboost engines that used aftermarket cleaners. Use a dyno and a boroscope to prove that some snake oil works, which it might, and then a little later an expensive turbo or converter fails and nobody understands why. Nice job, some turbos cost thousands to replace.
The manufacturer does not say to use it in their maintenance specifications. If it helped, the manufacturers would be putting their names on the label and pushing it out, just like they do with motor oil and filters.

 

[Windows on Wash]

Are you a chemist by trade? Referring to all products as "Snake oil" is a bit of a broad stroke comment. I'd be happy to put you in touch with the actual chemists and BG if you would like to chat with them about your claims.

I have treated hundreds of cars (as a technician) and never had one come back with a bad turbo.

Couple that with the fact that much of the higher end treatments are done as the shop and under no load situations and your argument of higher cylinder temperature is moot.

What do you claim that a fuel injection cleaner raises the temperatures by? How about the pre-ignition and detotnation temperatures when a motor is carbon fouled? And wear on rod bearing when the combustion cycle is starting before TDC?

 

[Old Thomas]

No reason to get your panties in a bunch. If you want to add stuff that is not in the service recommendations to your tank or anything else, go ahead. I prefer to follow the service regimen spelled out by the people who spent millions of dollars developing and building my engines. Remember Split Fire spark plugs that were supposed to add 5 HP to your engine? I put one in a lawnmower and raised it from 3.5 HP to 8.5 HP.
You have treated hundreds of cars, good for you. That is hardly a representative sample of the 17 million cars produced in the US in a year or the 289 million licensed in the country.

 

[Windows on Wash]

"panties in a bunch"...? So asking you to actually provide some data for your broad and far sweeping comment is "panties in a bunch"?

Good...follow your rules. Because why wouldn't you question anything that the big auto manufacturers tell you. Remember the Tucker. Your argument of authority is a logical fallacy. If the auto manufacturer wanted the car to last forever, they would sell a lot less new product.

The aftermarket usually comes up with ideas to fix most of the sh*t the designers get wrong. Ever seen a Volkswagen motor that sludges? It wasn't they that fixed that...it was the aftermarket.

Ever seen a Ford Powerstroke 6.0 EGR cooler or lift headgaskets? How about a 6.4L turbo seals seeing as you are referencing Ford here.

I guess you have tested the other 289 million in this case to come to that judgement? I have turned wrenches for a living before and have worked with the products and chemistry. Nice attempt and likening this to a Splitfire plug (which do make more HP).

Don't run it. I will keep doing the upper end carbon treatments and running 109 in the motor prior to the oil changes.

 

[Old Thomas]

I walked through Walmart's auto chemical aisle and found additives for fuel, oil, transmissions, cooling systems, power steering systems, high mileage, low mileage and on and on. Do you use all of those? I am sure every one comes from a company with chemists who would tell you that your car needs them, and of course, that their product is the only one worth using. The original poster didn't mentioning having any problems with his engine, only mechanics who want to upsize his bill by adding stuff to "cure" a problem that doesn't exist. The GM garage was constantly trying to sell me a tranny flush. I guess they didn't read the technical service bulletin from GM that said to never use any external filling or flushing equipment on any tranny GM ever manufactured or the memo that said shops are independently owned and some offer services not recommended by GM. Garages try to make money. My brother has every ASE certificate available, went to college for auto tech, and was the lead teacher at in auto tech at a school for years. In his 50 years in the business, he never used additives, he properly fixed cars that didn't run properly. Happy motoring.

 

[HotRodx10]

To clean carbon from valves and other engine surfaces, cleaners raise the temperature in the combustion process so that it burns off foreign substances.

Other than direct injection vehicles, which are mostly diesels, that's not even possible. Most FI engines inject the fuel into the intake manifold outside the cylinders. The injector cleaners work by dissolving the varnish, etc. left behind by the gasoline.


Btw, hotter ignition is most commonly a result of higher alcohol content in the fuel, and burned turbos usually result from them not getting a chance to cool (i.e. running the turbo hard and then shutting off the engine right away).

 

[Old Thomas]

"panties in a bunch"...? So asking you to actually provide some data for your broad and far sweeping comment is "panties in a bunch"?

Good...follow your rules. Because why wouldn't you question anything that the big auto manufacturers tell you. Remember the Tucker. Your argument of authority is a logical fallacy. If the auto manufacturer wanted the car to last forever, they would sell a lot less new product.

The aftermarket usually comes up with ideas to fix most of the sh*t the designers get wrong. Ever seen a Volkswagen motor that sludges? It wasn't they that fixed that...it was the aftermarket.

Ever seen a Ford Powerstroke 6.0 EGR cooler or lift headgaskets? How about a 6.4L turbo seals seeing as you are referencing Ford here.

I guess you have tested the other 289 million in this case to come to that judgement? I have turned wrenches for a living before and have worked with the products and chemistry. Nice attempt and likening this to a Splitfire plug (which do make more HP).

Don't run it. I will keep doing the upper end carbon treatments and running 109 in the motor prior to the oil changes.

So you are telling me that if I don't use your additive all those bad things will happen. If I use the additive none of those things will happen. Does the maker of the additive guarantee that? Do you personally guarantee that? I doubt it, but if they or you have a written warranty to that effect, post it, I will consider buying a bottle.

 

[wooleybooger]

BG44K is the best I have used.

+1
I won't get into a discussion on whether or not injector cleaners are "snake oil" but will just relate my experiences.

Over the years I've used several injector cleaners and never noticed any difference. The last time I used any it was BG44K in our 2008 Chrysler 300 2.7 L DOHC V6. Since retiring most trips are less than 2 and up to 5 miles RT and that every second or third day, maybe 20 miles a week including a 12 mile RT grocery run. The car was sitting mostly and a tank of gas lasts forever. The engine got to the point in was difficult to start, long cranking time then missing and finally running. Last resort before shop time was BG44K. This was my first time to use the stuff. Put a can in the tank and filled up. After the first 1/4 tank it was starting much better and just kept improving. After running a full tank though it fuel mileage improved 10/15% and there was a noticeable increase in acceleration. I'm sold.

 

[Windows on Wash]

I walked through Walmart's auto chemical aisle and found additives for fuel, oil, transmissions, cooling systems, power steering systems, high mileage, low mileage and on and on. Do you use all of those? I am sure every one comes from a company with chemists who would tell you that your car needs them, and of course, that their product is the only one worth using. The original poster didn't mentioning having any problems with his engine, only mechanics who want to upsize his bill by adding stuff to "cure" a problem that doesn't exist. The GM garage was constantly trying to sell me a tranny flush. I guess they didn't read the technical service bulletin from GM that said to never use any external filling or flushing equipment on any tranny GM ever manufactured or the memo that said shops are independently owned and some offer services not recommended by GM. Garages try to make money. My brother has every ASE certificate available, went to college for auto tech, and was the lead teacher at in auto tech at a school for years. In his 50 years in the business, he never used additives, he properly fixed cars that didn't run properly. Happy motoring.

Once again, quoting the manufacturer's from a position of "authority" is silly. They have, with regularity, produced equipment that was faulty and tried to stick the consumer with it.

Just doing a "spill and fill" service on a transmission is remarkably stupid as it only exchanges less than 50% of the fluid and you wind up mixing dirty old with new. Fine...if your point is dilution is the solution, but a full exchange, with proper cleaning, supplied without exogenous pressures and in a pressure gradient that matches the pressure out of the pumps poses what danger?

So you are telling me that if I don't use your additive all those bad things will happen. If I use the additive none of those things will happen. Does the maker of the additive guarantee that? Do you personally guarantee that? I doubt it, but if they or you have a written warranty to that effect, post it, I will consider buying a bottle.

As a matter of fact, I am glad you asked. If you use the BG line up of products on your vehicle, they will cover EVERY system that is serviced for the LIFE of your ownership of the car. So...yes, they guarantee it.

+1
I won't get into a discussion on whether or not injector cleaners are "snake oil" but will just relate my experiences.

Over the years I've used several injector cleaners and never noticed any difference. The last time I used any it was BG44K in our 2008 Chrysler 300 2.7 L DOHC V6. Since retiring most trips are less than 2 and up to 5 miles RT and that every second or third day, maybe 20 miles a week including a 12 mile RT grocery run. The car was sitting mostly and a tank of gas lasts forever. The engine got to the point in was difficult to start, long cranking time then missing and finally running. Last resort before shop time was BG44K. This was my first time to use the stuff. Put a can in the tank and filled up. After the first 1/4 tank it was starting much better and just kept improving. After running a full tank though it fuel mileage improved 10/15% and there was a noticeable increase in acceleration. I'm sold.

Good to know. It does have vastly more of the chemical in it that is responsible for the cleaning as compared to other cleaners. The Chevron Techron cleaner is actually not bad either.

If the engine is slightly carbon tracked, you need to run the upper intake cleaning in which they have the engine run directly off the injected cleaner that is titrated in via direct injection. This will reset the IAC in the process and the car will run much smoother. If the tech is doing it right, there is a way to load up the converter and rev spike it to blow it out a bit.

 

[wooleybooger]

Good to know. It does have vastly more of the chemical in it that is responsible for the cleaning as compared to other cleaners. The Chevron Techron cleaner is actually not bad either.

If the engine is slightly carbon tracked, you need to run the upper intake cleaning in which they have the engine run directly off the injected cleaner that is titrated in via direct injection. This will reset the IAC in the process and the car will run much smoother. If the tech is doing it right, there is a way to load up the converter and rev spike it to blow it out a bit.

Also good to know about the Techron cleaner. I've been considering taking the car to a shop that does BG treatments for more work. As for the running the engine on cleaner, the last time I had my truck in for a tune up I smelled what I think was Chemtool injector cleaner under the hood. The mechanic conformed they ran the engine directly on a cleaner but didn't confirm Chemtool.

 

[jproffer]

BG44K is the best I have used. Do it once every oil change and during the last tank of gas before the oil change.

At $25 a bottle, it should be lol.

Not doubting that it's good, just hard to justify dumping $50 extra into a tank full of gas, even no more often than I do it (yes, when I DO use FIC, I use a double dose).

At any rate, I'm not down on anyone who wants to use it, and I'm sure it's good stuff...just got sticker shock when I looked it up.

 

[3onthetree]

"I do not always drink fuel injection cleaner, but when I do, I drink BG 44K."

I do not know all with regards to cleaners, but have done a lot of couch research. My opinion is that if you consider it as an overall "maintenance" item, not a "panacea" to fix a bigger problem that can be caused by many other things than just fuel delivery, then there are products that do get some results. As with any industry, there are many that exaggerate for marketing.

On YouTube there is a poster "ChrisFix" that tests Gumout, Seafoam, and Techron. There is also a long line of internet threads on why not to use them, or when and how often to use them (especially stronger ones like BG 44K), and shops using them (not as upcharges, but quick fixes).

OP's question is very general, depending on problem if for some reason just fuel injectors, could range from solving only by a real sonic clean on one end, or a few tanks of BP gas (who refine with lots of additives) on the other.

 

[Windows on Wash]

At $25 a bottle, it should be lol.

You can find it cheaper, but again, the Techron stuff isn't bad as is "Seafoam'ing" a top end. I usually run AMSoil in my stuff as I buy it cheaper.

"I do not always drink fuel injection cleaner, but when I do, I drink BG 44K."

:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:



I am actually going to post that to a few buddies. One is a massive BG homer.

 

[Old Thomas]

I find it interesting how many "mechanics" think they are smarter than the engineers who designed and tested the systems. Also interesting is that some "mechanics" still subscribe to the old idea that manufacturers keep secrets about maintenance with the intent of causing early failure and the purchase of a new car. It costs many times more money in advertising to get the driver of another brand of car in the showroom than a current owner of the brand. Brand loyalty is important. Secret weaknesses hidden to cause early failure is an outdated idea from decades ago when there were only a few car companies and they could sell everything they produced.